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Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

arstechnica.com

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Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#921

Post by Hamuko »

rob74 wrote: post #747
major4x wrote: post #666

One shall not obsess with the game controller they use, I suppose, in their analysis, failing the controller wouldn't prevent the sub from resurfacing... It is symptomatic, however. The whole Silicon Valley is like that. You have the old guard, NASA, millions for fault analysis, rumors go the C code on some NASA rocket was certified at $1000 per line---human eyeballs reading it... All those start-ups and unicorns, th…

The use of the controller is symptomatic of their attitude, but I agree that it's probably not as relevant as, say, using an untested (and apparently untestable) carbon fiber hull: > Lochridge’s concerns mainly focused on the company’s decision to rely on sensitive acoustic monitoring – cracking or popping sounds made by the hull under pressure – to detect flaws, rather than a scan of the hull. Lochridge said the com…

The details about the single window on the craft is also pretty damning:

>Further, the craft was designed to reach depths of 4,000 meters (13,123ft), where the Titanic rested. But, according to Lochridge, the passenger viewport was only certified for depths of up to 1,300 metres (4,265ft), and OceanGate would not pay for the manufacturer to build a viewport certified for 4,000 metres.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#922

Post by twic »

hasmolo wrote: post #850
twic wrote: post #834

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a carbon fibre fork on my bike. I had a low-speed accident a few years ago, and took the bike to a mechanic to get it checked out afterwards. He said he'd checked everything, and it was fine - except the fork, which he had no way of telling if was undamaged or about to fail. I think i'll get steel next time.

this isn't true anymore. you can get carbon bikes scanned after and accident to find any internal damage. Ruckus in Portland, OR is where i've shipped to before with luck, but there's a lot more local options now depending on the scene

TIL! Apparently they do it with an ultrasound instrument:

https://www.olympus-ims.com/en/insight/ruckus-composites-ins...

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#923

Post by sixQuarks »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #556
sixQuarks wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If safety is an accidental side effect, then why are no other electric vehicles ranked as high in safety?

Where did you read that? Many other EVs have equivalent safety ratings. https://www.euroncap.com/en/ratings-rewards/electric-vehicle... https://www.shift2electric.com/_files/ugd/49f443_f12301e882e...

https://thedriven.io/2023/01/23/tesla-model-y-wins-2023-safe...

Using the euroncap ratings you used as an example, the model Y received the highest rating ever tested

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#924

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

robertlagrant wrote: post #902
gambiting wrote: post #820

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it's explained in another comment - the CEO wanted it tested but there isn't a facility anywhere on earth equipped to test it. Perhaps the argument then is that part of the company funding should have been building a custom rig designed for testing this highly custom 5 inch thick carbon fibre shell - but it's not like options to test it were available and were ignored.

The answer to "this can't be tested" isn't "don't test it". It's "don't use it".

Actually, it's "don't design it in a manner that will be untestable."

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#925

Post by robertlagrant »

gambiting wrote: post #919
robertlagrant wrote: post #902

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer to "this can't be tested" isn't "don't test it". It's "don't use it".

A lot of things that we use all the time couldn't be reasonably tested in operational scenario in any other way than by just using them(most planes are in that category - you can test a lot of things on test benches but there isn't a way to test an airliner at operational speed an altitude other than actually flying it)

I think if SpaceX can send 15 robotic rockets into space to test them, this lot could've sunk a prototype to high pressure and got a diver to go down and smack the hull with a wrench for a while.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#926

Post by lelanthran »

gambiting wrote: post #820
jonathanstrange wrote: post #815

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true, the maker of this sub compromised substantially on safety and did not have it certified by an independent body like most other builders of deep sea submarines do. In fact, members of the small deep sea submarine community wrote a letter to the company warning them about the safety hazards and the lack of certification. Source: Today's interview with a deep sea exploration submarine commander on Germ…

As it's explained in another comment - the CEO wanted it tested but there isn't a facility anywhere on earth equipped to test it. Perhaps the argument then is that part of the company funding should have been building a custom rig designed for testing this highly custom 5 inch thick carbon fibre shell - but it's not like options to test it were available and were ignored.

> the CEO wanted it tested but there isn't a facility anywhere on earth equipped to test it.

They could have dropped it to the bottom of the sea with weights, have a timer release the weights and hauled it back up. Cheaper than renting any testing facility on earth.

They could have done this multiple times on the same hull until it imploded. If a month of dropping it and retrieving it doesn't result in implosion, then it's probably safe enough to put people into it.

There was no need to make its first test of that pressure with people in it.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#927

Post by N19PEDL2 »

Hamuko wrote: post #921
rob74 wrote: post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The use of the controller is symptomatic of their attitude, but I agree that it's probably not as relevant as, say, using an untested (and apparently untestable) carbon fiber hull: > Lochridge’s concerns mainly focused on the company’s decision to rely on sensitive acoustic monitoring – cracking or popping sounds made by the hull under pressure – to detect flaws, rather than a scan of the hull. Lochridge said the com…

The details about the single window on the craft is also pretty damning: > Further, the craft was designed to reach depths of 4,000 meters (13,123ft), where the Titanic rested. But, according to Lochridge, the passenger viewport was only certified for depths of up to 1,300 metres (4,265ft), and OceanGate would not pay for the manufacturer to build a viewport certified for 4,000 metres.

I read about the huge lack of safety measures on the submarine, and now this. I am beginning to think that perhaps the CEO of the company has voluntarily decided to die with his unfortunate fellow passengers. I know mine is big speculation, but taking the glass viewport to 300% of its certified maximum strength in an environment where the slightest setback can be fatal can no longer even be considered as "taking risks."

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#928

Post by licebmi__at__ »

underdeserver wrote: post #733
major4x wrote: post #697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theranos? All those cases of neglected security when data leaked and/or people killed themselves over scams?

As far as I remember the Theranos people used standard commercial tests, and sold the results as coming from their magic device. So the results were solid - the fraud was elsewhere. I might be remembering this wrong.

No expert, but as I have read and understand, theres a catch. Theranos promised all kinds of tests drawing minimal blood, and they performed the tests using commercial equipment but with less blood than what these equipment is meant to use. So the results were not actually solid.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#929

Post by gukov »

AntonyGarand wrote: post #859
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #856

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The use of the controller is symptomatic of their attitude https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/19/16333376/us-navy-military... https://taskandpurpose.com/tech-tactics/us-military-video-ga... https://www.pyrosoft.co.uk/blog/2007/11/04/army-fly-uav-spy-...

Xbox controllers are way ahead of low-end logitech controllers though, so the point stands: If you want to control the device using a controller, might as well pick a good reliable one instead of the cheapest option available.

Perhaps their decision was dictated by how easy it was to integrate with one vs the other (drivers, etc).

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#930

Post by distortionfield »

relbeek2 wrote: post #891
AntonyGarand wrote: post #859

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xbox controllers are way ahead of low-end logitech controllers though, so the point stands: If you want to control the device using a controller, might as well pick a good reliable one instead of the cheapest option available.

I worked for a defense contractor, and we had initial plans for a contractor to build us a wireless controller. Their controller was an ugly box-shaped controller that they wanted to charge us 200k. I redesigned the architecture of our system so that we could use an Xbox controller instead. There is no reason why these controllers can't be used over some other "industrial" controller, as long as you design the system…

I’ve always hated this aspect of journalism- news stories latching on to an innocuous detail and then playing it up to make the whole operation seem like a circus. It plays to the Dunning-Krueger effect so hard.
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