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Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked

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Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked

#921

Post by richardwhiuk »

dustingetz wrote: post #853
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #734

If you've got an automated vetting process with a 99.999% success rate, but are dealing with billions of accounts, that's still tens of thousands of false positives. At that level, "percentage" is an insufficient measure. You want "permillionage", or maybe more colloquially "DPM" for "Defects Per Million" or even "DPB". You'll still get false positives though, so you provide an appeal process. But what's to prevent t…

Yes; decentralization

that's not a solution to a problem.

end users don't want to run their own spam and moderation filters, and they definitely do want them.

Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked

#922

Post by izacus »

sargun wrote: post #824
ceejayoz wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those can get shut down in exactly the same manner.

Not exactly. Their user agreement gives you a number of outs, and ways to get a live human.

Not if your account gets suspended in this way - there are some testimonies from people that said it locks you out of support and you get stonewalled too.

Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked

#923

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #734

If you've got an automated vetting process with a 99.999% success rate, but are dealing with billions of accounts, that's still tens of thousands of false positives. At that level, "percentage" is an insufficient measure. You want "permillionage", or maybe more colloquially "DPM" for "Defects Per Million" or even "DPB". You'll still get false positives though, so you provide an appeal process. But what's to prevent t…

At some point percentage is insufficient, but it's because it's a rate. Permillionage/DPM doesn't fix it. It's the number of people affected that matters, so if you have it at 99.9% and grow 10x, you ought to improve it to 99.99% to not become eviler. If you just stay at 99.9% when you grow 10x, you're harming 10x the people.

I'd use the total number of false positives as the proper measure.

Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked

#924

Post by int_19h »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #734

If you've got an automated vetting process with a 99.999% success rate, but are dealing with billions of accounts, that's still tens of thousands of false positives. At that level, "percentage" is an insufficient measure. You want "permillionage", or maybe more colloquially "DPM" for "Defects Per Million" or even "DPB". You'll still get false positives though, so you provide an appeal process. But what's to prevent t…

If a company has so many users that it can't hire enough employees to manually handle the false positives properly, it's too big to exist, and should be broken up.

Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked

#925

Post by FridgeSeal »

buffington wrote: post #906
brundolf wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's impossible that streamed games will find a market, but I think there are several hurdles that (unsurprisingly) weren't apparent to a company with no experience in the industry: 1) PC gamers tend to revel in owning (building, customizing, optimizing) their hardware; not just because it lets them play the games they want to play, but even for its own sake. RGB arrays, overclocking, custom case builds…

I hate doing this, but I feel like I need to pick at each of your described hurdles, because I think each of them make assumptions or assertions that don't hold up. 1. You claim PC gamers do it for the hardware as much as the software. Let's assume the data backs that - it certainly seems like it's likely to be true. And I'm biased in wanting to believe it too, because I like to build and revel in the machines that r…

> What does Stadia add? On a good connection, it'll add 20-30ms

I can’t ping my router and get consistent latency that low.

Latency on speed tests varies between 15 (off peak no load) and 100ms (normal).

There is no way that by the time that all adds up, stadia is going to be a better experience than local.

My internet is also shared with other people, in a country with notoriously subpar internet (yay Australia), the closer we get to reality, the less appealing stadia becomes. The kind of game streaming I could get behind is the rainway/local streaming approach where I run the game on local hardware (pc/PS5) and stream to convenient device.

Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked

#926

Post by d0gbread »

int_19h wrote: post #924
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #734

If you've got an automated vetting process with a 99.999% success rate, but are dealing with billions of accounts, that's still tens of thousands of false positives. At that level, "percentage" is an insufficient measure. You want "permillionage", or maybe more colloquially "DPM" for "Defects Per Million" or even "DPB". You'll still get false positives though, so you provide an appeal process. But what's to prevent t…

If a company has so many users that it can't hire enough employees to manually handle the false positives properly, it's too big to exist, and should be broken up.

Why broken up vs users migrating to a competitive service? Seems like a very simple facet to compete on.

Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked

#927

Post by aparsons »

mooman219 wrote: post #864
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #734

If you've got an automated vetting process with a 99.999% success rate, but are dealing with billions of accounts, that's still tens of thousands of false positives. At that level, "percentage" is an insufficient measure. You want "permillionage", or maybe more colloquially "DPM" for "Defects Per Million" or even "DPB". You'll still get false positives though, so you provide an appeal process. But what's to prevent t…

I think this is a balancing act of risks, and I wanted to bring up what I believe to be a success story when it comes to handling suspensions: Microsoft. One thing I believe Microsoft gets right is that suspensions are isolated to the service whose TOS was violated. I.e. violating the hotmail TOS doesn't suspend you from their other services. I think this makes the impact of a false positive less catastrophic, while…

If we did that at Microsoft when we were bringing Hotmail under the MS umbrella, DOJ would have ripped the company into 10 pieces

Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked

#928

Post by int_19h »

BingoAhoy wrote: post #898
wmf wrote: post #873

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this really true? If Gmail was replaced with a dozen competing services each with "only" 100M users each, would the total number of moderators be lower? How does the number of required human moderators per million users scale, and why?

I agree: not true. The advantage of automation is you can do more for less which extends the reach in wealth and services available to the human race. Automation is a beautiful thing and gmail being too big to service with human support is not understanding that we'll never have enough intelligence power to police every square inch of existence + the net if we rely solely on human intelligence. Problem is: can we cul…

Automation is a form of capital. In an economic system that has conditions for a runaway positive feedback loop of accumulation of capital, in the long term, it benefits primarily those who own the capital. Specifically, it allows them to collect more economic rent from it, and share less with the rest.

Taken to its logical conclusion, when everything is automated, the people who own the automation don't actually need the rest of the population at all - it becomes redundant. Of course, the "redundant" population might have different ideas about itself...

Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked

#929

Post by dgudkov »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #734

If you've got an automated vetting process with a 99.999% success rate, but are dealing with billions of accounts, that's still tens of thousands of false positives. At that level, "percentage" is an insufficient measure. You want "permillionage", or maybe more colloquially "DPM" for "Defects Per Million" or even "DPB". You'll still get false positives though, so you provide an appeal process. But what's to prevent t…

>If you've got an automated vetting process with a 99.999% success rate, but are dealing with billions of accounts, that's still tens of thousands of false positives.

Doesn't matter. If you're dealing with billions of accounts then you're earning billions of dollars. Just hire more people. Scale must never be an excuse for poor customer service.

Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked

#930

Post by WalterBright »

wmf wrote: post #873
esja wrote: post #760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lesson here is: you are too big. If you were smaller, you could manage these issues. But you choose to be big instead.

Is this really true? If Gmail was replaced with a dozen competing services each with "only" 100M users each, would the total number of moderators be lower? How does the number of required human moderators per million users scale, and why?

But you'll have the option of switching to one of those other companies.
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