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America is giving up on the pandemic?

theatlantic.com

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Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#921

Post by noad »

scarmig wrote: post #543
noad wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe there are just bigger problems than the virus right now.

Your comment is a case in point: the takeaway the general public will have from this letter is that the virus doesn't really matter, and you should feel free to disregard it if you can come up with a vaguely plausible reason why your particular circumstances mean you should be exempt from caring about it. Which we kind of were at anyway, but now public health figures have given their signoff on that interpretation.

The CDC already failed us. Public health figures have been wrong repeatedly at the local, state, and national level.

I understand people's frustration with them, and I understand why people don't care about their "signoffs" on what we're allowed to do, especially when the guidelines are completely nonsensical like in California.

Where are the free clinics? Where are the free tests? Where is the free quarantine hotel room? None of that, instead we just get chided for being stupid and uncooperative by leaders. This is completely unacceptable, they failed us, not the other way around.

And the police might actually kill me today, unlike the virus.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#922

Post by kleer001 »

unethical_ban wrote: post #685
neonate wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is the double standard with which some protestors were condemned while others were lauded based solely on which causes (and which classes of people) the commenters happened to politically support. It's transparently unprincipled, to the point of being a sad joke.

I'm torn, a little bit. Against your point: The current protests are at least mostly respecting the fact the disease exists, and encourages masks. Also, these protests are much more organic than the "re-open America" protests. And the left-wing who got mad at the anti-public-health protests never called for cops to shoot them or round them up. IOW: We respected their freedom to be out there, no matter how fucked the…

> I fundamentally don't respect most conservatives, much less those who think they need to protest against public health measures.

You're conflating political stance with intelligence. Also, you need to respect everyone. That doesn't mean agree-with or follow blindly, just recognize their inherent humanity and worth. I feel like that must have been a sentiment promulgated by someone famous at some time in the past.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#923

Post by sethammons »

CameronNemo wrote: post #445
alchemyromcom wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Losing your livelihood can kill you, however. If you are a small business owner, for example, and it's illegal to operate that business, your life is also in danger and your situation deserves empathy. Empathy is not finite resource. We can extend it to all people in bad situations, not just people we prefer.

Which is why the federal government passed a never-before-seen stimulus package that included forgivable small business loans and expanded unemployment income. There is no equivalent safety net for people who are victims of positional asphyxia.

I know several small businesses that are closed forever despite that bill. Many reasons why, I’m sure; however, the most cited one I’ve heard is that the monies had too many strings tied to uncertain outcomes whereby the business owner could end up still out there f business but also with debt that they wont be able to service.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#924

Post by CathedralBorrow »

mythrwy wrote: post #547
01100011 wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the Amy Cooper/Christian Cooper incident from a few weeks ago was the most important 'teachable moment' that we've had in years. I am somewhat disappointed that it was overshadowed by protests against police brutality, because I thought it was a very 'teachable moment' that illustrated the type of racism that still exists behind a facade of tolerance. Police abuse is sort of a separate issue relating to train…

"That doesn't negate the experiences of people of color, it just adds another facet to the way people can prejudge you. If anything, it should illustrate how bad things could be if you weren't white." Yep that was exactly my point and why I related the story. I learned that people really are profiled and harassed based on their looks or certain assumptions about them. It really does happen.

> It really does happen.

But not in any structured way, but rather in random human behavior that we might never be able to correct, right?

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#925

Post by mcv »

infinite8s wrote: post #691
wutbrodo wrote: post #675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would someone find offensive about the picture?

Possibly the labels under each facial style.

Offensive or hilarious? I love the creativity behind naming each individual style. I don't think any of them are particularly offensive, are they? It's possible I'm missing some references, of course.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#926

Post by CathedralBorrow »

cmdshiftf4 wrote: post #171
lostapathy wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a lot of it, for better or worse. I feel like a lot of people are afraid to talk about anything but the protests lately, lest they be branded as not supporting the protests.

>I feel like a lot of people are afraid to talk about anything but the protests lately, lest they be branded as not supporting the protests. That's exactly it. I've some friends who are on the whole rather apolitical, in fact I'd call them politically ignorant as it's not something they tend to invest any time into, but who either run relatively large social media pages as a side hustle or do so professionally on beh…

> In essence, those actually supporting the protests have created an environment whereby they'll never be able to judge the true sentiment around their movement, as dissent or even public agnosticism toward it has been all but quashed. Something that, in my eyes at least, has dangerous potential.

I support the protests. What can I change in my behavior to stop creating this dangerous environment?

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#927

Post by CathedralBorrow »

zarathustreal wrote: post #323
matwood wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From chatting to them over the last week or two, they've said they've been put in a place whereby they can't not post something in support of the protests in either case. This tells me the protests are working. When people who normally do not pay attention are forced to see what's happening, then change can occur. It's going to be uncomfortable for a lot of people as they come to terms with their own privilege and…

>When people who normally do not pay attention are forced to see what's happening, then change can occur. It's going to be uncomfortable for a lot of people as they come to terms with their own privilege Unfortunately you're very correct there, though not in the way I think you're assuming. Force people with influence, power, money, ability to be above common problems, to see what's happening and you're not going to…

> Change is certainly going to happen, and it's not going to be the change you're hoping for.

Can you clue in the rest of us here? These are very chaotic times and I'd really like to know what the future holds.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#928

Post by wpietri »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #743
01100011 wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the Amy Cooper/Christian Cooper incident from a few weeks ago was the most important 'teachable moment' that we've had in years. I am somewhat disappointed that it was overshadowed by protests against police brutality, because I thought it was a very 'teachable moment' that illustrated the type of racism that still exists behind a facade of tolerance. Police abuse is sort of a separate issue relating to train…

> structural racism I think "structural racism" is one of the biggest branding failures of the whole movement. To begin with, it uses the word "racism" to refer to something unintentional, when it normally implies intentionality. That needlessly makes people defensive. So then they want to deny that it's happening rather than admit there is a problem, which is the first step to solving it. Before even step one you've…

If you think one single word is all that lies in the way, feel free to pick a different one and start using it. But once you actually do the anti-racist work, you'll find that isn't really the problem. It's that white people generally become irrational and defensive whenever race comes up. See DiAngelo's "White Fragility" for more on this. Her 2011 academic paper on this is here: https://libjournal.uncg.edu/ijcp/article/viewFile/249/116

A pretty clear example is what happened with the phrase "Black Lives Matter". It doesn't involve the R word. And yet, it sends a lot of white people into a rage. Literally, as here, where the menacing white man is shouting: “Black Lives Matter? Fuck you! Fuck you! Fuck you!” https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10223827665665524&se...

And it's not just that guy. For many, there is no acceptable way to point our racial injustice. The only acceptable level of protest is one so quiet that it is entirely unseen, unheard. MLK addressed this in his "Letter from Birmingham Jail" if you want to read more.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#929

Post by sethammons »

n9 wrote: post #232
glofish wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

masks, when worn by the general (or asymptomatic) population have not been proven to reduce the spread of SARS-COV-2 - no seriously there is no evidence to support mask usage - the belief that mask do anything is nothing more than a superstition - the virus take the form of an an aerosol that is not stopped by a little cotton thing in front of your nose do you honestly believe that a little rag in front of your mouth…

The studies that show that masks reduce the R0 of COVID-19 are many and broad. https://www.livescience.com/face-masks-eye-protection-covid-... The latest ones that I have read indicate an 85% reduction of transmission and infection between two people wearing masks, a double 85% reduction. Where is an instance of a study that indicates the opposite? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

I find it interesting that the paper suggests that contracting COVID through your eyes is twice as prevalent compared to breathing it in. See 3% rate for non-mask vs 6% for non-eye-protection. Why are we not all wearing eye protection too?

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#930

Post by turndown »

thu2111 wrote: post #333
turndown wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I don't disagree with that, but when the name is a "throwaway", it is a new account, and its only posts are half explanations of simplifications or just outright lies on highly divisive topics, I have no issue connecting the dots.

Which parts are outright lies? The now flagged and dead post said this: “Stay inside”, “don’t gather in groups”, “cancel your wedding”, “wear a mask during sex”, but oh hey, it’s OK to go downtown and riot, burn down buildings, and throw bricks at the police. These things are all true of the UK. As someone with a family member in the UK I can assure you they had to cancel their wedding, they were limited to an hour o…

The second half of your post is so dishonest and childish as to not require a response; you have proven exactly what I said. Everything you mentioned is either amusingly out of context or simply trying to describe events as they did not happen. I urge you to get help, but if you cannot do so then I encourage you to follow your own advice and not follow quarantining rules in the future.
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