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The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

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Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#911

Post by aagha »

pixl97 wrote: post #107
chinathrow wrote: post #55

If you work for Palantir and if you work on these systems: You have blood on your hands. You know that it's not right what is happening on the ground right now. Do something.

The particular problem here is the vast majority of people that are writing this software 1. Don't care, blood is great. 2. Think they are the good guys. 3. Are more worried about their next paycheck and having bad things happen to them related to not paying rent.

You forgot another point--or it could be related to #3: off-shoring and H1B. Many people are just working the job and working on a small piece of software where they don't know or care about the ramification of project. They're getting paid and even if they know what's happening, they're not incentivized to care about what happens in America.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#912

Post by zahlman »

shrubble wrote: post #117
andrewvc wrote: post #19

For an idea as to how this gets translated into the reality on the ground here in Minneapolis this is an article on what’s going on from the main newspaper in the state. > In the past week alone, ICE boxed in a Woodbury real estate agent recording their movements from his car, slammed him to the ground and detained him at the Whipple Federal Building near Fort Snelling for 10 hours. A 51-year-old teacher patrolling t…

A person who believes the above examples should try to find the videos or other details of each case in order to be sure they are being told the truth. Assuming that the “carried the woman through the street” is the same case as the video I watched, she was clearly deliberately obstructing traffic, as she wasn’t continuing to drive down the street despite the road being clear with no vehicles ahead of her. She then i…

It's bizarre to me that your comment was flagged and killed (here's a vouch). You see what you see in the video. There is nothing about your comment that violates HN guidelines. On the other hand, rhetoric about "lying" and "fascist assholes" is clearly not in the spirit of constructive dialog.

Other people here seem to think that "obstructing" something entails making it impossible to get around. That is just... not how that language ordinarily works. They also misrepresent your argument, skipping all the steps in between, as if you were asserting that people are being shot directly as a punishment for obstructing traffic. That's clearly not what anyone is saying or justifying, including the officers themselves.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#913

Post by gdilla »

asa400 wrote: post #560
embedding-shape wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all those things happened in Spain where I live, I'm 99% we'd have actual riots on the streets, together with a lot of other unpleasant-but-needed civilian action, until things got better, like we've done in the past (sometimes maybe went slightly overboard with it, but better than nothing). Why are Americans so passive? You're literally transitioning into straight up authoritarianism, yet where are the riots? How…

First, all of what you say is true. I'm going to try to add a little context as someone who is here on the ground, in the city in question. There is the imminent threat of mass death, and no one here is under any illusions about it. Every ICE agent is armed, and most have ready access to automatic weapons. These are not well-trained members of an elite organization with a storied, patriotic culture. ICE is a personal…

eh, it's mostly racism. White america doesn't have to take to the streets with guns.they just have to yell at their peckerwood gop reps to impeach. Not a peep out of the red states though. they all wanted this.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#914

Post by zahlman »

datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #195
shrubble wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much of the situation were you actually able to know? Were you privy to the entire conversation?

The amount of credulity you’re exhibiting is incredible given the tidal wave of evidence that there’s a highly politicized, highly funded paramilitary organization of the government that has to date not been publicly held accountable for any of its actions that clearly violate the rights and safety of even the lawful residents of the United States.

[flagged]

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#915

Post by zahlman »

watwut wrote: post #161
shrubble wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A person who believes the above examples should try to find the videos or other details of each case in order to be sure they are being told the truth. Assuming that the “carried the woman through the street” is the same case as the video I watched, she was clearly deliberately obstructing traffic, as she wasn’t continuing to drive down the street despite the road being clear with no vehicles ahead of her. She then i…

> she was clearly deliberately obstructing traffic, You are lying. She waited for the pedestrian to cross. Also, obstructing traffic is not valid reason to be violent against someone. ICE or cops being violent in that situation is them abusing their power big time. So, again, we are back to Brownshirts comparison.

> She waited for the pedestrian to cross.

This does not in any way contradict "she was clearly deliberately obstructing traffic". There was a very long period in the video where there was clearly no obstruction to her driving down an empty street and multiple officers were repeatedly telling her to do so, and cars behind her were obstructed for no reason.

> Also, obstructing traffic is not valid reason to be violent against someone.

This is a complete strawman.

> ICE or cops being violent in that situation is them abusing their power big time.

ICE are cops. "She then is removed from the car by force and refuses to move, requiring her to be carried" is normal; if you are under arrest and you do not comply with the arrest, LEO are legally entitled to use the force required to enact the arrest. In this case, she had to be removed from the car because she tried to lock herself in the car, and she had to be carried because she refused to move along. That's just how arrests work.

To the extent that any of that can be called "violent", it is not a consequence of obstructing traffic. It is a consequence of resisting arrest.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#916

Post by FuriouslyAdrift »

dragonwriter wrote: post #719
15155 wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zero of the Federalist papers corroborate this.

The Federalist papers were campaign ads for ratification of the base Constitution from a faction opposed to adding a Bill of Rights (an opposition explicitly stated in the Federalist Papers; it was, in fact, the central theme of Federalist #84.) They are neither a reliable summary of the motivations for the provisions they support nor any kind of argument for the provisions in the Bill of Rights.

The opposition to the Bill of Rights was that it was unnecessary. Rights do not originate from the Constitution or the law.

The Bill of Rights was specifically designed to abrogate any possibility of infringement of those enumerated rights by an out of control State.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#917

Post by zahlman »

watwut wrote: post #372
newfriend wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obstructing justice, and then refusing to comply / resisting arrest will lead to you being forcefully removed. This is in fact a valid reason.

Actually, it is not. Also, she was not obstructing justice, she was on the way to doctor stopped by armed thugs.

> Actually, it is not.

The law disagrees: https://www.justice.gov/jm/1-16000-department-justice-policy...

It's very easy to find abundant sources for this.

If you're locking yourself in your car when you're under arrest, and that car is currently blocking traffic, there is no reasonable alternative to using force to get into the vehicle and take you out. Nothing else will get you out of the vehicle, and you legally must get out of the vehicle. You can't just be left there.

If you are resisting having handcuffs put on you, or refusing to walk along as you are taken to a police vehicle, there is no reasonable alternative to using force to ensure that the handcuffs go on and you get in the vehicle. Being carried is about the gentlest thing that could possibly happen.

> she was on the way to doctor stopped by armed thugs.

This is contradicted by the fact that she repeatedly refused to take a clear path when she was being told to take a clear path and the officers were not in any way preventing her from doing so.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#918

Post by zahlman »

newfriend wrote: post #267
watwut wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> she was clearly deliberately obstructing traffic, You are lying. She waited for the pedestrian to cross. Also, obstructing traffic is not valid reason to be violent against someone. ICE or cops being violent in that situation is them abusing their power big time. So, again, we are back to Brownshirts comparison.

Obstructing justice, and then refusing to comply / resisting arrest will lead to you being forcefully removed. This is in fact a valid reason.

It's bizarre that your comment was flagged and killed for an objectively true statement.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#919

Post by foldr »

RickJWagner wrote: post #889
foldr wrote: post #874

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are conceding the point that it is not in fact normal in other parts of the world for the police to shoot the driver as a means of avoiding being hit by the car. Doing so does not even make sense from a practical point of view. The car will most likely keep coming towards you anyway. The incident you linked where the police officer sustained life threatening injuries (they didn’t die, as far as I can tell) seems…

The point is not to stop the car. The point is to stop the driver, because that person is obviously willing to kill someone using the car as a weapon. That person should be stopped ASAP. The cited articles include charges of murder, highlighting that point.

Err, your claim is that Renee Good was about to go on a Carmageddon-style killing spree and the ICE agent was concerned not for his own safety but for the safety of the general public? There are three key problems with this analysis:

1) It is utterly ludicrous considered in itself, going beyond even what MAGA’s lunatic fringe has dared to suggest.

2) It undermines the only possible legal defense the officer might theoretically have had (self defense).

3) Even waiving the outrageous absurdity of what you’re saying and your various insults to the reader’s intelligence, shooting the driver just means that the car is almost certain to crash into something (as indeed happened here), which creates more danger to the general public, not less.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#920

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

BuckRogers wrote: post #761
ceejayoz wrote: post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My "ideology" is submission to the Creator. It's not "my" ideology. > You have your ideology though. Though it's not really yours at all… Aww, we're twinsies!

You really do not add much value to any conversation you're a part of. The reading comprehension just isn't there. It remains true, my views are gained from submission to my faith. I recognize they're not my views. It's submission to our higher power. The difference is that you think your views are yours. But you're a moral relativist being manipulated. Blowing with the wind in society, you're a "cool guy". Anything…

For anyone who wants a term to refer to this seemingly nonsensical behavior:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

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