Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines • Hacker News Board

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#911

Post by randomNumber7 » Sat, Jan 10, 2026, 4:29 PM UTC

johncolanduoni wrote: post #617

isodev wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Kind of wild that a private company has that kind of power Also kind of wild that it’s a private US company pushing their current political views on another sovereign state. Cloudflare as a political tool of leverage is a level of dystopia we really should try not to unlock.

They're threatening to take their ball and go home. If they move all of their operations out of Italy, under what principle does Italy demand they block content globally? Should Wikipedia remove their page on Tiananmen Square because the Chinese government demands it (which they would, if they thought it would work)?

The Chinese are smart enough to realize how evil you look if you ask for s.th. like that.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#912

Post by bmelton » Sat, Jan 10, 2026, 4:30 PM UTC

bambax wrote: post #884

CrzyLngPwd wrote: post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, we cry "freedom of speech" when Russia/China/adversary shuts our propaganda-pushing media or tools out. Freedom of speech for me, not for thee, eh? I don't want my politicians deciding what is good or bad on the internet. I'm an adult, and I can decide for myself.

> I don't want my politicians deciding The whole concept of democracy is based on this: you elect politicians, they decide. If you don't like that, you don't like democracy. Which is fine, but then you don't get to defend it either as the best system under the sun, etc.

A lot of people naively interject "But we're not a democracy, we're a Republic!" at arguments where it has no real bearing, but _here_ it does.

We (America) are not a democracy, we're a constitutionally limited republic. Republic is a subset of democracy, but the 'constitutionally limited republic' part is important. We cannot elect politicians to censor the things that we want censored because our republic has not authorized the government to do censorship, and the bill of rights expressly forbids it. They are constitutionally limited from doing so until and unless the constitution is amended.

Until and unless we change the constitution, any efforts to do that are illicit. Popular democracy would allow a majority to vote to bring back slavery, and if you don't like that, you don't like democracy.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#913

Post by nkmnz » Sat, Jan 10, 2026, 4:32 PM UTC

cubefox wrote: post #709

nkmnz wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure Cloudflare is an ISP according to German law ("Diensteanbieter" according to DDG). You might confuse "ISP" with the terminology of "Access Provider" according to the (now defunct) §8 TMG.

If that were true, sci-hub.se would be blocked in Germany on 1.1.1.1 (1dot1dot1dot1.cloudflare-dns.com), it isn't blocked, therefore it's not true. (Modus tollens)

Your reasoning is impeccable, bravo. But it's wrong. Both your premise and your conclusion are based on completely wrong assumptions.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#914

Post by nkmnz » Sat, Jan 10, 2026, 4:37 PM UTC

DangitBobby wrote: post #637

nkmnz wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, he's not bringing them up as intellectual support for his argumentative base – he's bringing them up as support for acts of retaliation. This is mostly about power and we've lost 30% in power vs. the US in just ~12 years because we've fucked up our economy.

Most of our power loss is from electing a belligerent dumb fuck twice and allowing him to sabotage our international relationships and destroying our remaining credibility.

I was speaking about Europe as a whole. Economically, we suck. Losing UK didn't help, either, but except for Poland, we've become relatively poorer by an insane amount, compared to the US. Another 10 years on that path and we're half the US.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#915

Post by woooooo » Sat, Jan 10, 2026, 4:39 PM UTC

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #896

woooooo wrote: post #892

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that just "culture"? Let the best content win? It used to be that the USA was comfortable competing and winning along these lines.

Yes (sort of), but the definition of best has changed so drastically built on completely different benchmarks (engagement) As an example, watch a really good documentary on something, I would consider it best But it might have less views than some AI slop video perhaps even generated in a minute Another aspect relevant to the propaganda discussion is that I think modern algorithms have decided that ragebait is the be…

Ok, but are we losers who cannot compete culturally? Where's the faith and confidence? We can't compete with AI slop?

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#916

Post by raxxorraxor » Sat, Jan 10, 2026, 4:43 PM UTC

dependsontheq wrote: post #706

Let's be a bit more honest here, I think the Italian law is badly defined, but I also think the american perspective is wrong. We (all tech people everywhere me included) argued for a lot of time for free speech on the internet, but the result currently is that we built a system that is free speech for Russian and Chinese bots and actors. In Europe we are under daily attack from Russian accounts that spread massive a…

To be honest, I think this argument is FUD as well. There are some Russian accounts and there is disinformation, but this isn't the core of polarization in western democracies and Europe in particualr. And reigning in free speech is even poison in this situation, which is more complex than pointing your finger at bots.

In Europe freedom of speech is under threat from its own population, which is more and more driven by fear. This fear might not be unreasonable and has multiple sources, but it remains a bad basis for decision or policy making.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#917

Post by saubeidl » Sat, Jan 10, 2026, 4:45 PM UTC

drysine wrote: post #910

saubeidl wrote: post #857

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like the risk of the mouth-breather next door reading Russian propaganda, it's not myself I'm concerned about. In a democracy, most people are unfortunately stupid and easily manipulable. We can't let the Russians (or the Americans!) use them as their proxy.

So you want to censor what other people read? I don't think your neighbor would appreciate such patronizing attitude.

I don't appreciate my neighbors letting themselves be manipulated to do me harm. I think it's time we do something about it.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#918

Post by saubeidl » Sat, Jan 10, 2026, 4:45 PM UTC

lucianbr wrote: post #890

saubeidl wrote: post #839

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because freedom of speech was always a misguided creed at best. The speech of the manipulator is not the same as the speech of the expert and they shouldn't be given the same treatment, lest you want psychological warfare waged on your nation. American free speech extremists like these tech CEOs are either willing patsies or useful idiots in the hybrid warfare against Europe.

What rules can you possibly have that distinguish the expert and the manipulator in all cases, without abuse? I think free speech comes from the same base as universal vote: any selection mechanism would be corrupted and in the end cause more harm than good. That is why the solution is to let everyone speak / vote. If you have some uncorruptible people or mechanism for selection, just use that to make policy decision…

I think the solution is to elect a commission of experts to be deciding this. Term limits. Separate independent institution from the government - no meddling.

Critical thinking even in those capable of it is a limited resource. I can't spend all day every day critically examining every single statement the internet flings at me - it's mentally exhausting and wears one down.

Let's elect proxies to do it for us.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#919

Post by saubeidl » Sat, Jan 10, 2026, 4:49 PM UTC

woooooo wrote: post #915

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #896

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes (sort of), but the definition of best has changed so drastically built on completely different benchmarks (engagement) As an example, watch a really good documentary on something, I would consider it best But it might have less views than some AI slop video perhaps even generated in a minute Another aspect relevant to the propaganda discussion is that I think modern algorithms have decided that ragebait is the be…

Ok, but are we losers who cannot compete culturally? Where's the faith and confidence? We can't compete with AI slop?

Can broccoli compete with heroin? Why don't we offer people both and see what they like better? Let them compete! Give people choice!

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#920

Post by saubeidl » Sat, Jan 10, 2026, 4:52 PM UTC

mattmaroon wrote: post #858

saubeidl wrote: post #856

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hear me out, but: You can elect a commission of experts to be deciding this. Term limits. Separate independent institution from the government. That's not a dictator. You're just grasping for hyperbole to prop up an ideological point.

It’s called a jury. We have those. They’re the commission that determines if something is slander.

Something doesn't need to be slander to be information warfare. We need something much larger scale and more powerful to fight back the hybrid warfare from Russia and increasingly also the US.