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Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

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Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#911

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, they are required to allow people to develop other App Stores. They can also add any number of other policies which you probably run afoul of several times a day. Then terminate you for that. You can still develop your app store, you just can't break all the rules to develop your app store.

> Then terminate you for that And then the EU takes them to court and fines them billions of dollars. The rest of the world doesn't have to stand still. They can just confiscate Apple's money using threat of government force.

> The rest of the world doesn't have to stand still. They can just confiscate Apple's money using threat of government force.

But surely the US would not just stand still either while the rest of the world plunders one of its most successful megacorps/source of American influence.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#912

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's entirely a matter of incentives. Companies are like machines whose sole purpose is to make a profit. Pretty much everything they do apart from that (make products, employ people, pollute, etc) is, strictly speaking, a side effect. If they could make just as much money (or more) without doing any of those other things, they absolutely would, and any company that wouldn't do the same would eventually be put out of…

> It's entirely a matter of incentives. Companies are like machines whose sole purpose is to make a profit. Pretty much everything they do apart from that (make products, employ people, pollute, etc) is, strictly speaking, a side effect. What do you base that on? Sure corporations take on a life of their own, but there's much more to most of them than purely making profits. They're made up of humans too, and usually…

> What do you base that on? Sure corporations take on a life of their own, but there's much more to most of them than purely making profits.

Do corporations do other things besides make profits? Yes; I previously said as much. The point is about why they do the things they do.

> There are many corporate agendas that have little to do with profit.

Perhaps in the short term, if they can afford to economically, but isn't this kind of like the exception that proves the existence of the rule?

Is Tesla a car company that wants to make great cars and help reduce carbon emissions for the benefit of all? Maybe, but their primary goal must be profits, because they can't do any of the other stuff if they aren't profitable.

> The meme that corporations are purely about profit needs to die, because it encourages that exact behavior by giving free reign to morally devoid executives, IMHO.

I disagree that it encourages that behavior. If you want to change that behavior then an accurate understanding of the current state of affairs is a necessary prerequisite.

Like if you're going to say, "I want to do less of X and more of Y", then surely your first order of business must be to understand why they are doing X in the first place and not so much of Y (hint: it's usually because of profits).

In the case of corporations, because being profitable is necessarily the first priority, it follows that the most effective way to change the behavior of a corporation is pretty much anything that affects their profit, as opposed to appealing to the moral/ethical/whatever values of their leadership. If you want ethical corporate leadership, then you have to make it unprofitable to be unethical.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#913

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The arbitrary limitations on computers that are obviously general purpose is more clear than the arbitrary limitations on general purpose computers that are marketed as special purpose computers (gaming machines). In reality they're all equally bad.

iOS/iPadOS devices have never been marketed as general purpose computers though. They have increasingly become that, and I’m not arguing that the limitations are good, but the limitations of the app store have always been core to the marketing of these devices. The Mac product lines are the only “general purpose” devices.

You don't remember the "What's a computer?" ad?

iPads are most definitely marketed as devices suitable to take the place of conventional computers.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#914
In other news, Apple continues its quest of suicide.

I can't decide who do I hate more? Epic, desperately attempting to portray their acts as Holy sacrifices by being martyred in the hands of blood thirsty, evil Apple corporation or perhaps Apple double downing with malicious compliance, scummy tactics and lording their mob-boss like attitude towards EU and its citizens?

Meanwhile people here are arguing over which sport team they belong to rather than the actual issue at hand which is the fact that computing ownership is being taken away from normal people by tech companies and frankly all of them are at fault (Amazon, Google, Apple, Epic, Ubisoft,..).

You no longer own anything, you have to rent it and smile. You are prohibited from modifying the devices you purchase or even attempt to repair it. Your movies and music libraries can be removed by the whims of the corporation and your books can be deleted should an executive feel like it does not align with the DEI flavor of de jours

My point is this, computing is no longer a niece for nerds and people literally have their lives tied to these systems and devices. We are in serious trouble if strong laws and regulations are not implemented (not only within EU but frankly everywhere) to prevent these corporations taking away people's rights, privacy and freedoms.

I don't know how this will pan out but the silver lining is that it may start a discussion at the world stage regarding these issues.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#915

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iOS/iPadOS devices have never been marketed as general purpose computers though. They have increasingly become that, and I’m not arguing that the limitations are good, but the limitations of the app store have always been core to the marketing of these devices. The Mac product lines are the only “general purpose” devices.

You don't remember the "What's a computer?" ad? iPads are most definitely marketed as devices suitable to take the place of conventional computers.

To me, that ad underscores the point somewhat. Apple is marketing these devices as something other than a computer. Something that makes a computer unnecessary.

The underlying implication being: “You don’t need a computer”, and “our ecosystem is so good that the new generation won’t even know what a computer is”.

As a tech and Linux nerd since the early 2000s, I can understand why other tech savvy people could interpret this as “this is no different than a computer”, but I don’t think this is the right framing, and I don’t think we’re the intended audience.

Their claim has always been that this ecosystem makes general purpose computers unnecessary for a wide array of use cases, because “there’s an app for that”.

From the perspective of a layperson, I think the message is: “Computers are for tech people (and/or outdated). This is for the rest of us”.

The term “general purpose” means something very different to the HN crowd than it does for the majority of Apple customers.

I want to reiterate that I’m not endorsing their position, just trying to point out that their marketing has been consistent in trying to differentiate the i*OS products. The difference between “you don’t need a computer” and “this is a general purpose computer” is subtle but important I think.

I also don’t think it’s a good direction for tech in general, even though I value some of the benefits of the locked down ecosystem. I do most of my productive work on a Linux system and think it’s critically important to continue having this option.

I’m just not trying to use an iPad for this purpose.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#916

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's entirely a matter of incentives. Companies are like machines whose sole purpose is to make a profit. Pretty much everything they do apart from that (make products, employ people, pollute, etc) is, strictly speaking, a side effect. What do you base that on? Sure corporations take on a life of their own, but there's much more to most of them than purely making profits. They're made up of humans too, and usually…

> What do you base that on? Sure corporations take on a life of their own, but there's much more to most of them than purely making profits. Do corporations do other things besides make profits? Yes; I previously said as much. The point is about why they do the things they do. > There are many corporate agendas that have little to do with profit. Perhaps in the short term, if they can afford to economically, but isn'…

people don't act out of conscience because there's a particular incentive for them to do so. They act out of conscience, because there's a disincentive, naturally, in doing something wrong as an individual, or as anyone with any amount of accountability at all. But as long as entities shield or provide a mechanism of free absolution to those responsible for harming others and the environment, then there never will be such a disincentive. They can always hide behind the organization, or perhaps the manipulative, false rhetoric that they are simply looking out for shareholder profits.

A false, ill-justified argument can be disassembled from multiple angles. One of the trivial counterarguments to our current wrong state of affairs is that the above mentioned profits are not actually real profits. It's actually people stealing from others. So many people engage in the same behavior that they can't call out the serious offenders without giving up their own mask.

Humanity en masse actually does not deserve better. That's why we're in this situation. If we did give up our lies, we would demand others do too, as we demand a good world.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#917

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then terminate you for that And then the EU takes them to court and fines them billions of dollars. The rest of the world doesn't have to stand still. They can just confiscate Apple's money using threat of government force.

> The rest of the world doesn't have to stand still. They can just confiscate Apple's money using threat of government force. But surely the US would not just stand still either while the rest of the world plunders one of its most successful megacorps/source of American influence.

The USA is likely to side with the EU, actually.

The US government is literally right now trying to sue Apple for similar anti trust crimes.

If anything, what would happen is that the USA would finish its lawsuit and force Apple to end its illegal and anti completive behavior worldwide, instead of just in the EU.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#918

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah, its really weird to appeal to the noble intentions of a corporation. They're both just engaged in business. This is what's wrong with the current overly capitalist system. Companies are totally allowed to have no conscience, and externalise whatever they please to consumers and the environment. And you could even argue they are 'forced' to do so by due diligence legislation. If we let this continue there will…

It's entirely a matter of incentives. Companies are like machines whose sole purpose is to make a profit. Pretty much everything they do apart from that (make products, employ people, pollute, etc) is, strictly speaking, a side effect. If they could make just as much money (or more) without doing any of those other things, they absolutely would, and any company that wouldn't do the same would eventually be put out of…

> Companies are like machines whose sole purpose is to make a profit.

I think I understand that you mean to say "Corporations", whose governing body is made up of board members and executives. In that sense, there certainly seems to be a strong correlation.

In my case, however, I started a game company this year, and my goals are not profit driven. I haven't sat down to write things out but I probably should. Loosely, my company's two main goals:

- To make fun/mindblowing/entertaining pieces of Art. This is done by working on the gaming dreams that myself and my employees have.

- To give my employees a future where they care about the company as much as I do, feel financially well compensated and satisfied in their career, and have support for their aspirations and ideas.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#919

Apple seems to be very scared that Epic's App Store might have been working. So much so, that they are going to risk another huge fine from EU.

Perheps Apple judges the fine less than the likely loss the the Epic store.

Re: Apple terminates Epic Games developer account, calling it a 'threat' to iOS

#920
post #780

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think they're being emotional about it It's hard to read it as anything but emotional. It's pure display of power, Apple is willing to hurt iOS users to make a point to other developers.

Epic Games was willing to hurt their iOS users by knowingly, wilfully, and strategically breaching Apple's developer agreement in a way they knew would result in Fortnite being removed from the store. Then they manipulated their customers into directing their anger towards Apple even though it was Epic's wilful actions were to blame. I'd be a little emotional too.

Apple has manipulated the entire global population into thinking what they are doing is reasonable. It's BS and someone has to stand up to them.
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