Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

cnil.fr

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

911–920 of 1001 posts

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#911

Post by mekkkkkk »

greenyoda wrote: post #765
mekkkkkk wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big reason is that competing with them on equal footing is a monumental task. You are working against network effects, heavy duty marketing, integrations into other products and a whole army of developers. Developing the product itself isn't the reason.

But network effects and marketing are irrelevant for products that can't be used in your country because they violate local laws. If some Google product can't legally be used in the EU, then it has zero network effects there and Google wouldn't waste money marketing it there. Also, the competing EU-based service might be strong competitors to the ones in the U.S., among people like me who are privacy conscious. I don…

I think you misread the comment thread. You are just restating my point. I agree with you. I was talking about the current (previous?) situation, where US and EU companies are on equal footing on the european market.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#912

Post by matheusmoreira »

xdennis wrote: post #581
mediascreen wrote: post #412

I think we (in the EU) will soon realise the bizarre consequences of these regulations. European startups will not be able to use standard SaaS or PaaS tools (like AWS, Azure, Mailchimp, PayPal etc) if they are based in the US (like most of them are). No cloud services, no Office 365 or Google Workspace. It will take forever to build up a similar ecosystem in Europe and I think most successful European entrepreneurs…

On the contrary, it only forces those providers to have a European presence. We're not fragmenting the internet by looking after our own interests. This wouldn't be an issue if Americans viewed rights (and in this case privacy rights) as belonging to human being as opposed to Americans citizens. The US's policy is what led to this: > Agencies shall, to the extent consistent with applicable law, ensure that their priv…

> We're not fragmenting the internet by looking after our own interests.

Of course you are. This is the only possible outcome of any attempt to impose national rules on an international network. Instead of one global network, we'll end up with several local ones.

The internet is among the most incredible achievements of humanity. I'm glad I got to experience it before they destroy it. By now it's only a matter of time.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#913

Post by greycol »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #619
i5heu wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s okay. The EU can build it itself when the US player are not able to not send data to their US data centres.

Why would EU building it themselves going to happen? Either it could be profitable for company to operate in EU or it is not. Assuming current US companies are efficient enough and if they couldn't be profitable, why could be a same thing built by EU is profitable there. In fact it is opposite as they couldn't track as much as American companies even outside EU.

Because US companies are hamstrung by US laws that prevent them from complying with EU law (i.e. US govt says you must give private data to us and EU says you can't give private data to non EU govt). Other companies not based out of the US can guarantee privacy that meets EU spec if they don't have local laws compelling data access. So it might not be EU companies that capatilize on it but there can be a market opportunity that US companies can't fill.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#914

Post by Nullabillity »

nickpp wrote: post #733
mping wrote: post #699

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This completely misses the point, the laws shouldn't be written to accommodate businesses, its the other way around. If fragmenting is a consequence of better privacy laws, so be it.

Businesses exists for consumers. Fragmenting hurts people - European users - in the first place. I see very little advantages from these privacy laws but I use and appreciate US businesses every day.

So if those businesses utterly refuse to serve consumers then they have no business existing?

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#915

Post by paulfurtado »

native_samples wrote: post #869
forty wrote: post #802

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are AWS and Azure regions in France. GCP should open one early 2022.

But they don't count because they're still controlled from the USA.

Is this really true? As far as I know you can be perfectly compliant with EU law by running in AWS's EU regions.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#916

Post by SSLy »

native_samples wrote: post #869
forty wrote: post #802

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are AWS and Azure regions in France. GCP should open one early 2022.

But they don't count because they're still controlled from the USA.

Wonderful reason to break up the goliaths!

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#917

Post by pg_1234 »

ineedasername wrote: post #760
xdennis wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, it only forces those providers to have a European presence. We're not fragmenting the internet by looking after our own interests. This wouldn't be an issue if Americans viewed rights (and in this case privacy rights) as belonging to human being as opposed to Americans citizens. The US's policy is what led to this: > Agencies shall, to the extent consistent with applicable law, ensure that their priv…

If by those providers you mean Google, AWS etc. then that might not solve much. As subsidiaries of American corporations they would be obligated to hand over data to the parent corp, especially if the US DOJ required it. I think the only solution would be for them to not collect and store data from GDPR jurisdictions that would violate the GDPR if they were forced to hand it over to the parent American corp.

No, the subsidiary would be governed by European law, and would be prohibited from handing data over to either the US parent company or the US DOJ if that violated GDPR.

The US parent company could not compel the subsidiary to violate the law of the region it was located in.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#918

Post by mekkkkkk »

verdverm wrote: post #844
withinboredom wrote: post #833

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry I wasn’t clear. The reason there are no competing products isn’t because it is hard. It’s because they keep getting bought as soon as someone does “good enough”

They don't have to sell to them though, right?

In most cases the underdog is running on investment funds, and has handed over a significant amount of the company control to investors. When a buy is proposed, those investors have to weigh the really quick (probably really large) profit of selling versus playing the long game fighting an uphill battle against the giant.

This is how promising companies are swallowed by the market leaders.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#919

Post by lrvick »

mediascreen wrote: post #412

I think we (in the EU) will soon realise the bizarre consequences of these regulations. European startups will not be able to use standard SaaS or PaaS tools (like AWS, Azure, Mailchimp, PayPal etc) if they are based in the US (like most of them are). No cloud services, no Office 365 or Google Workspace. It will take forever to build up a similar ecosystem in Europe and I think most successful European entrepreneurs…

I run multiple organizations just fine without any third party proprietary SaaS like those provided by Salesforce, Google, Apple, etc.

It is crazy to me so few realize it is really not much, if at all, harder to run a business without involving US surveillance capitalism corporations.

Tools like Nextcloud, Matrix, Jitsi, have turn-key SaaS providers or you can self-host them easily as well. Same for many many analytics solutions.

I honestly think every company would be better off having more sovereignty in their tech stacks and data, and it is much better for consumers who may not realize they are -also- sharing their data with third parties like Google who use it sell targeted behavior changes to the highest bidder.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#920

Post by drusepth »

RadixDLT wrote: post #858
jonny_eh wrote: post #758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> do you believe no good ISPs exist in France Nothing comparable to AWS/GCP/Azure.

have you tried Linode?

Linode is also based in the US. Wouldn't it have the same can't-make-requests-to-the-US problems?
Post reply on HN