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GitHub, fuck your name change

mooseyanon.medium.com

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Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#911
I view language policing as a type of misguided adherence to a strong version of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, which basically states that people can't think what there is no word for in their language. This is utter nonsense; people have likes and dislikes and biases and will always find new ways to express these views.

There was a long period in linguistics research where linguists thought they could understand language best by discovering the etymologies of every word; this drove a lot of the work of recovering Proto-Indo-European. They thought that if they knew where a word came from that they would then know the absolute truth regarding the meaning of the word. Things changed at the beginning of the 20th century, and this approach is now considered pseudo-scientific; linguistics is data-based now, with meanings of words determined by their usage and context.

"Master" is a pretty neutral word, with about a dozen meanings if you check Meriam-Webster. Even if the top meaning listed were "one having authority over another" (and it's not), this is still too vague to simply declare that it's associated with slavery and needs to be avoided. There's nothing about a Git repository that's directly reminiscent of American slavery, so it's quite arbitrary to declare the word "master" inappropriate in this context. It could be quite a different story if the spelling were "massah", which would directly evoke the image of slavery.

In general, though, even for actual offensive words I think the banning approach is counter-productive. Melioration, the loss of a negative connotation, is a perfectly natural process, and by outright banning a word you prolong the process or even strengthen the negativity of it. Let negative word meanings fade out of our consciousness as the negative feelings that gave birth to them disappear.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#912

I want to share my own reactions to the name change since this is a really interesting topic. For context, I'm an African American, so many of my ancestors were slaves. - The first time it occurred to me that "master" in this context could offend anyone was when GitHub changed the name (and broke my workflow). - My immediate reaction was, "this change is by white people for white people," where "white" means anyone w…

I have an honest question for you and others who are directly impacted by this, and would love to hear your perspective. I work on a software team that has the usual level of diversity, an almost equal mix of East Asian, Indian, Middle-Eastern, and White developers, a few women, and not a single black developer. Here's the problem though... I've been part of the screening and interviewing process and we've only had O…

recruit at universities where they attend.

reach out to people with the skillset you like.

black engineers have jobs. the government and defense contractors recruit at schools that have a higher percentage of black software engineers. its not that hard of a concept.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#913

I want to share my own reactions to the name change since this is a really interesting topic. For context, I'm an African American, so many of my ancestors were slaves. - The first time it occurred to me that "master" in this context could offend anyone was when GitHub changed the name (and broke my workflow). - My immediate reaction was, "this change is by white people for white people," where "white" means anyone w…

> Thus it is a useful reminder of the implicit bias that contributes to the lack of diversity in tech. This is a useful reminder. It's a reminder that associative thinking can invert causal relationships and turn anything into a symbol for anything else. There is no rational limit to things that can be attacked this way. Someone can demand you to change the way you talk or dress, what you read or watch, how you do yo…

> This is a useful reminder. It's a reminder that associative thinking can invert causal relationships and turn anything into a symbol for anything else. There is no rational limit to things that can be attacked this way.

I've never heard this stated so clearly and succinctly. Thanks for advancing the conversation.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#914
I don't understand why the whole world have to suffer because some blimp in American history. So there was slavery, big deal, there were much worst things around the world at those days and people from all races suffered. Black Americans are one of the most privileged people in the world these days just by being born in a rich and relatively free country, I am sick about hearing their grievances and whinging, in my eyes they are just spoiled brats who don't want or can't from some reason put the hard work everybody else is putting in order to better their life.

This guy from London in the article did the right thing and good on him but he shouldn't complain that he is getting searched when many of the black community there is focused on gang banging and glorifying it in every second song possible. Fix your community instead of demanding other people to solve your issues.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#915

I've been surprised that there is a new generation of developers who never heard that master/slave is offensive/irritating to some people. I first ran into this in 1996 when I joined a team building a product that had replication. We changed all the uses of master/slave to supplier/consumer. I had just relocated from the UK, where (at least by my perceptions) race is less of a core societal issue. I remember asking w…

It's interesting you bring up Linus Torvalds in this discussion because he, around the same time as the Github changes, signed off[0] on an update to the terminology used in the Linux kernel. To me it's not a decision I expected, but watching some older talks where it's been brought up to him he seems to be indifferent to the controversy and just wants to focus on the tech.

[0] https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/lin...

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#916

I want to share my own reactions to the name change since this is a really interesting topic. For context, I'm an African American, so many of my ancestors were slaves. - The first time it occurred to me that "master" in this context could offend anyone was when GitHub changed the name (and broke my workflow). - My immediate reaction was, "this change is by white people for white people," where "white" means anyone w…

[deleted]

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#917

I want to share my own reactions to the name change since this is a really interesting topic. For context, I'm an African American, so many of my ancestors were slaves. - The first time it occurred to me that "master" in this context could offend anyone was when GitHub changed the name (and broke my workflow). - My immediate reaction was, "this change is by white people for white people," where "white" means anyone w…

This is a thoughtful and patronising post. Since you give advice frelly, let me offer one back: every time you type the word 'slave', take a deep breath and consider the etymology of that word.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#918
post #867

"I guess mummy and daddy paying $20 mil for a new library to get me a seat at an ‘elite’ school is still meritocracy eh?" As someone who never even finished college, I think this is a pretty cheap shot. My former boss on Wall Street went to MIT and only got there because his father was a migrant strawberry picker who worked his ass off to get his kid a good education. My last boss was African American, and went to Ha…

Here is an interesting article with some statistics https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/09/meritoc... http://www.equality-of-opportunity.org/papers/coll_mrc_paper... Maybe not all of those people who are enrolled have donated and then got in, but wealth is directly correlated with getting into these schools, not pure skill. At this point getting into a university is just about memorization and going thr…

You can't discount the idea that wealthy people generally have shared values that are more conducive to successful careers for their children. Therefore it shouldn't be surprising that wealthy students are more likely to get accepted into prestigious universities irrespective of how much money they have.

Having said that, there is no reason why a poor family can't also impart the same values to their children. It's just more difficult because they have to learn those values on their own, rather than being taught from a young age.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#919

Disclaimer: I'm a white engineer who is now a VP. I also have a black daughter. I can't speak for the black experience(s) because I'm not black, but I'm also acutely invested in seeing things get better in terms of race relations and opportunities for all people. A few thoughts: 1. Words matter. They aren't the most important thing per se, but they shouldn't be ignored. Over time, all these little changes do add up.…

Why isn't the discussion that it's also quite racist to associate the word "slave" with Blacks/Africans? People don't seem to know any history when they say that. It's not only Africans that got enslaved, peoples of all ethnicities did. It's just virtue signaling at the end of the day. It's ridiculous watch everyone fight over this while missing the root cause.

"It takes no more research than a trip to almost any public library or college to show the incredibly lopsided coverage of slavery in the United States or in the Western Hemisphere, as compared to the meager writings on even larger number of Africans enslaved in the Islamic countries of the Middle East and North Africa, not to mention the vast numbers of Europeans also enslaved in centuries past in the Islamic world and within Europe itself. At least a million Europeans were enslaved by North African pirates alone from 1500 to 1800, and some Europeans slaves were still being sold on the auction blocks in Egypt, years after the Emancipation Proclamation freed blacks in the United States." — Thomas Sowell

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#920
post #728

I'm Slavic, i.e. the ethic group of people that is the likely etymological origin of the word slave . I'm not offended by the concept of slavery , or by the words master or slave . Indeed, I think it's important to keep this important concept in mind, so that we can solve the related problem of enslaved humans. In addition, I don't see a problem with these words being used in non-human concept - slavery is only a pro…

Exactly. Don't have human slave, but slavery of computers is actually something desirable. Until AI become emotional and that's not a thing we should be doing anymore. :)
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