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GitHub, fuck your name change

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Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#871

Post by mathgorges »

cphajduk wrote: post #832
jssmith wrote: post #538

I want to share my own reactions to the name change since this is a really interesting topic. For context, I'm an African American, so many of my ancestors were slaves. - The first time it occurred to me that "master" in this context could offend anyone was when GitHub changed the name (and broke my workflow). - My immediate reaction was, "this change is by white people for white people," where "white" means anyone w…

To me, "master" and "slave" are historic terms used throughout electrical, software, even entertainment industries. Eliminating words from a vocabulary is very 1984-like. Those words have a deep historical meaning, allowing ourselves to just "remove them" is akin to forgetting and ignoring the dark past of slavery, rather than remembering and acknowledging it (with the hopes it will never happen again). Saying that i…

Github isn't eliminating any words from anyone's vocabulary.

This thread has demonstrated that plenty of people are committed (har har) to calling their repository's je ne sais quoi branch `master`.

While I'm with you that I don't understand how this will move the needle on racial equity, I'm uncomfortable with how visceral of a reaction a group of technology professionals is having to what is essentially a library changing a default value.

Like, vocabulary changes all the time. Technology changes even more frequently. Why y'all so scared to use a different label?

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#872

Post by alienthrowaway »

root_axis wrote: post #677
jssmith wrote: post #538

I want to share my own reactions to the name change since this is a really interesting topic. For context, I'm an African American, so many of my ancestors were slaves. - The first time it occurred to me that "master" in this context could offend anyone was when GitHub changed the name (and broke my workflow). - My immediate reaction was, "this change is by white people for white people," where "white" means anyone w…

As another black SWE, I'll add that I disagree with your perspective. I think the name change does more harm than good because it trivializes the movement. If the goal is to change minds and open hearts then where appropriate, we should endeavor to communicate in ways that will be well received by those who need to hear the message . Stuff like this is just preaching to the choir and alienating the rest, but also not…

> If the goal is to change minds and open hearts then where appropriate, we should endeavor to communicate in ways that will be well received by those who need to hear the message.

As another black SWE - I have to ask which hearts are we trying to open? Some are far too gone and it would be a waste of time to try to convince them to let go of their bigotry. The very same will feign engagement and argue in bad faith while being energy vampires. Why should I supplicate racists before I have my dignity as a human? Fuck "hearts and minds" - I have no way of definitively knowing those - I'll take changed behavior instead, that's all I truly care about. If I ever have kids, I can't have them live like this.

> we should endeavor to communicate in ways that will be well received by those who need to hear the message

I agree, but you need to consciously consider who these people are - if it's everyone, then the battle is already lost.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#875

Post by ironman1478 »

rcurry wrote: post #867

"I guess mummy and daddy paying $20 mil for a new library to get me a seat at an ‘elite’ school is still meritocracy eh?" As someone who never even finished college, I think this is a pretty cheap shot. My former boss on Wall Street went to MIT and only got there because his father was a migrant strawberry picker who worked his ass off to get his kid a good education. My last boss was African American, and went to Ha…

Here is an interesting article with some statistics https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/09/meritoc...

http://www.equality-of-opportunity.org/papers/coll_mrc_paper...

Maybe not all of those people who are enrolled have donated and then got in, but wealth is directly correlated with getting into these schools, not pure skill. At this point getting into a university is just about memorization and going through the rehearsed motions. There are too many good applicants. The only differentiating factor is money at this point and wealth is required to learn how to do the motions to get in. Everything else is just a dice role.

I also think its important to think about the age of the people you are talking about. If they were older, then it was generally easier to get into almost all universities assuming you had the money (which is a HUGE if). The acceptance rates at all these schools was significantly higher. Not to diminish their accomplishments (because they are tremendous accomplishments), but in the past it was in some ways more "fair" from a financial perspective (though probably unfair in all the other ways that things can be unfair).

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#876

Post by sequoia »

Another potential issue with a change like this, for the reason that they give for doing it, is that it may communicate an inaccurate picture of what black people care about to non-black people. "Oh wow, black people are offended by and 'hurt by'[0] the use of this term. I didn't know this would make them feel hurt!"

Articles like this clarify that at least some black people in fact do not feel "hurt by" this use of this term.

I'm Jewish, if someone said "we have to take all the swastika imagery off this Hindu graphic because it will offend and hurt Jews," that would bother me. I'm not offended, much less hurt, by seeing a swastika in a cultural context unconnected to Naziism. To suggest most Jews would be "hurt" by this paints an inaccurate and extremely unflattering picture of my own resiliency and ability to contextualize words and imagery. I can't speak for black folks but I would be surprised if some didn't feel similarly about being informed that reading the word "master" would or should offend and hurt them.

0: https://sfconservancy.org/news/2020/jun/23/gitbranchname/ (this is the rationale linked to by github[1])

1: https://github.com/github/renaming

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#877

Post by ngokevin »

vmception wrote: post #47

I’m a black American and agree with everything that this person in London wrote. It is also a common criticism of the American “left”, and is entirely accurate. For everyone perplexed about black Americans and other people of color walking away from the left, its because you/they don't see us as equals that can be bothered by the exact same things that other Americans can be bothered by: being told what to think, wat…

Reminds me of the Netflix film, White Tiger. A liberal Indian-American woman comes to India, pretends to care about how the lower castes of India are treated as slaves, but in the end, is just going through the motions and leaves a servant with pocket change. In the end, not treating them as people, but as objects to funnel their morality and values.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#878

Post by make3 »

vmception wrote: post #47

I’m a black American and agree with everything that this person in London wrote. It is also a common criticism of the American “left”, and is entirely accurate. For everyone perplexed about black Americans and other people of color walking away from the left, its because you/they don't see us as equals that can be bothered by the exact same things that other Americans can be bothered by: being told what to think, wat…

The actual (socialist) American left (think AOC, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren) calls this liberalism, and complains that it is more about posturing than actual change. So this is only a criticism of the left if you are very far to the right.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#880

Post by je42 »

jssmith wrote: post #538

I want to share my own reactions to the name change since this is a really interesting topic. For context, I'm an African American, so many of my ancestors were slaves. - The first time it occurred to me that "master" in this context could offend anyone was when GitHub changed the name (and broke my workflow). - My immediate reaction was, "this change is by white people for white people," where "white" means anyone w…

currently, i have mix of projects some with main some with master as default branch.

After, I short while i am getting used to main. No issues, just occasionally type main instead of master and vice versa.

Further, i think i like main better. The name fits a bit better the purpose (in my flows) and it also shorter ;)

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