If this passes and Apple has to break encryption worldwide I hope they leave the UK. They won’t but they should.
U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts
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Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts
#902Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts
#903It's baffling to me that any sane, healthy person would advocate for invasion of not just one person's privacy (in the case of known or highly suspected criminal activity), but a whole country's people's privacy. (In this case, at least, the privacy of all Apple users in the UK.) Where does this problem start? Is it a basic education thing that valuing one's own and others' privacy needs to be taught to kids from a y…
> Where does this problem start?
It starts with UK citizens buying iPhones and expecting their data to be private at all.
Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts
#904It's baffling to me that any sane, healthy person would advocate for invasion of not just one person's privacy (in the case of known or highly suspected criminal activity), but a whole country's people's privacy. (In this case, at least, the privacy of all Apple users in the UK.) Where does this problem start? Is it a basic education thing that valuing one's own and others' privacy needs to be taught to kids from a y…
It baffles me how you seem to think intelligence agencies have some sort of morals or sense of duty to their citizens. These organisations are set up with the sole purpose of spying on all people. They have done it for decades and have done it in some fantasticly dispicable ways. So no, asking a corporation for data on their customers is probably is probably a relatively weak action for them to pull on the grand scheme of things.
Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts
#905It's baffling to me that any sane, healthy person would advocate for invasion of not just one person's privacy (in the case of known or highly suspected criminal activity), but a whole country's people's privacy. (In this case, at least, the privacy of all Apple users in the UK.) Where does this problem start? Is it a basic education thing that valuing one's own and others' privacy needs to be taught to kids from a y…
> Where does this problem start? It starts with UK citizens buying iPhones and expecting their data to be private at all.
It starts with ALL citizens buying iPhones and expecting their data to be private at all.
Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts
#906It's baffling to me that any sane, healthy person would advocate for invasion of not just one person's privacy (in the case of known or highly suspected criminal activity), but a whole country's people's privacy. (In this case, at least, the privacy of all Apple users in the UK.) Where does this problem start? Is it a basic education thing that valuing one's own and others' privacy needs to be taught to kids from a y…
> Where does this problem start? It starts with UK citizens buying iPhones and expecting their data to be private at all.
Is it any different with Android phones? From what I've read it doesn't seem so.
My comment applies just as much to the people working at Apple and Google as to the folks in the UK government.
Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts
#907Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right, after all the docs leaked by Snowden et al? After it has been shown time and time again that Apple give any customer data to the US government that they ask for? Trump as your president?! Thats right, the UK is the creepy nanny state!
Why can't they both be bad?
All governments are bad when it comes to citizen privacy, I think we can all agree on that.
Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts
#908Earlier quoted context omitted.
> As Apple isn’t based in the UK and owes no fealty to their government Apple isn't based in China, they owe nothing to them either. Apple's willingness to backdoor and modify their services for actual authoritarianism is well[0] documented[1], at no point did they ever threaten to leave the respective markets. Every single spectator knows that Apple leaving these markets would be an admission of guilt. > Bribing loc…
China is not the UK, and isn’t comparable, any more than the US was. Apple’s manufacturing is far more dependent on China than it is the UK, with one exception: Arm. Legitimately, if the UK government declare Arm to be unexportable to the US, they can completely fuck over everyone except Apple, who I expect has a Complete Code license or equivalent so that they can continue development of Arm goes bankrupt or gets cu…
The ARM licensing bit hasn't been relevant since SoftBank bought ARM. The preeminent issue is that Apple is already perfectly fine with warrantless surveillance and didn't leave the EU, US or anyone over it. This expectation for Apple to grow a San-Bernadino-esque backbone in an age where they manufacture backdoors for Five Eyes is hilarious.
Seriously; how do you expect Apple to hold a principled stance on privacy when they've already admit to warrantless surveillance? https://www.macrumors.com/2023/12/06/apple-governments-surve...
Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts
#909It's baffling to me that any sane, healthy person would advocate for invasion of not just one person's privacy (in the case of known or highly suspected criminal activity), but a whole country's people's privacy. (In this case, at least, the privacy of all Apple users in the UK.) Where does this problem start? Is it a basic education thing that valuing one's own and others' privacy needs to be taught to kids from a y…
It baffles me how you seem to think intelligence agencies have some sort of morals or sense of duty to their citizens. These organisations are set up with the sole purpose of spying on all people. They have done it for decades and have done it in some fantasticly dispicable ways. So no, asking a corporation for data on their customers is probably is probably a relatively weak action for them to pull on the grand sche…
I totally get the spy agencies' "moral flexibility" requirements, as I've heard it put.
From what I understand, the spy agencies have ways of obtaining your private information that don't necessarily involve blanket requirements to access all users' data (e.g. creative ways of injecting malware into specific people's devices). But those approaches don't scale, of course. And they shouldn't need to.
Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts
#910Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Where does this problem start? It starts with UK citizens buying iPhones and expecting their data to be private at all.
Is it any different with Android phones? From what I've read it doesn't seem so. My comment applies just as much to the people working at Apple and Google as to the folks in the UK government.
It is, Android handsets are not prevented by Google from selecting an entirely different operating system if they distrust the one installed by the OEM. It is expressly the choice you would make if you expected userland encryption to be mandated broken.
It doesn't protect against every attack (eg. Stingray or evil maid) but it absolutely would protect you from a situation like the one in the OP. Breaking your encryption can only work if the OEM controls your phone more than you do.