Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home • Hacker News Board

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#901

Post by citizenpaul » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 3:25 PM UTC

buildingmateri wrote: post #710

flippinburgers wrote: post #511

Men are not doing as well as women in school. If you look in the wrong places on the internet, media, or daily life, all you see is negativity towards masculinity. In addition, there doesn't appear to be any broad social system that is geared towards supporting men. The fact that men don't tend to be a socially adept doesn't help. This all feels like the perfect storm and there are plenty of people who act like "men…

Especially a problem because for almost all men a career and supporting family (maybe the hardest thing to figure out in life) is non optional, whereas half the female friends I have from college have abandoned careers to saddle up to a breadwinner ... I mean I kind of want that option but men don't really have it. Does anyone ever really discuss this social reality that makes it different for men v women in real wor…

I’ve attempted this discussion all over the internet. It does not go well would be a tame statement. There seems to be a pervasive belief that men do have this option equally available to them.

Only half? My exp is more like 80% shack up with a breadwinner. Even with half of women that means max 25% of men get this option.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#902

Post by abz10 » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 3:41 PM UTC

Noos wrote: post #891

jwilber wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My twin brother and I grew up without a biological father, were very independent at an early age, and both have high-paying jobs in faang. Both well-adjusted, multiple relationships, successful, etc. I see a lot of Jordan Peterson-esque BS professing these “no biological father == neet” rules, and I’m not saying that’s the point you’re leading with your question, but am jumping at any opportunity to dispel it, just i…

and someone can successfully complete high end raids in world of warcraft despite being a paraplegic. Doesn't mean everyone should be able to do so or its too easy to raid. Don't view outliers and your own experience as standard; high achievers do this way too often and end up discounting the real difficulty and struggles in accomplishing such a thing.

An irony that is not lost on me is that high achievers often have their own problems that they would know about if they and society wasn’t so keen to dismiss the problems of others. I was told I was lazy when I couldn’t keep up with the other kids physically (just exercise more), and I thought they were lazy when other kids couldn’t keep up with me mentally (just study more). Turns out it was hEDS. It would have been nice to have figured that out 25 years earlier, the damn thing near ruined my life.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#903

Post by lumost » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 3:52 PM UTC

iammisc wrote: post #727

mkmk2 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the FIRE cultural phenomena?

Fire is the opposite of not having a work ethic. Most firees are incredibly disciplined and have a bigger work ethic than most normal people.

The result of this work ethic is to remove one’s self from the workforce. It’s a reasonable question as to why a lifetimes ambition for these hard workers is to be able to do nothing.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#904

Post by marcellus23 » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 3:54 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #751

acituan wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Men are not doing as well as women in school. Schools are not performing as well for men as they do for women. I'm not just playing with words; it is really important to frame the share of responsibility correctly. It is the school's job to educate the kid, not kid's job to compensate for the dysfunctions of an education system. I'll generalize because I don't have any detailed data; anyone from the front-line educ…

> > Men are not doing as well as women in school. > Schools are not performing as well for men as they do for women. Maybe men are just not inherently less suited to academic success, which is being made more clear now that systematic discrimination in their favor isn’t preventing equal-terms comparisons with women in that domain. Equality of opportunity doesn't mean equality of outcomes, after all.

If that were true then why wouldn’t you want to change academia so that it works well for both men and women? Wouldn’t that be the obvious ethical path to take?

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#905

Post by horns4lyfe » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 3:55 PM UTC

okaram wrote: post #685

flippinburgers wrote: post #511

Men are not doing as well as women in school. If you look in the wrong places on the internet, media, or daily life, all you see is negativity towards masculinity. In addition, there doesn't appear to be any broad social system that is geared towards supporting men. The fact that men don't tend to be a socially adept doesn't help. This all feels like the perfect storm and there are plenty of people who act like "men…

Can you point to any examples of negativity towards masculinity instead of towards toxic masculinity?

Toxic masculinity in the media has now come to encompass any quality in a person they don’t like. A weight lifter is an asshole? It’s because of a toxic masculinity problem in weight lifting. Positive traits in men as a broad population are regularly cast to toxic masculinity in individuals by lazy writers.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#906

Post by horns4lyfe » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 3:58 PM UTC

cjohnson318 wrote: post #681

flippinburgers wrote: post #511

Men are not doing as well as women in school. If you look in the wrong places on the internet, media, or daily life, all you see is negativity towards masculinity. In addition, there doesn't appear to be any broad social system that is geared towards supporting men. The fact that men don't tend to be a socially adept doesn't help. This all feels like the perfect storm and there are plenty of people who act like "men…

> In addition, there doesn't appear to be any broad social system that is geared towards supporting men. What planet are you on? The whole social system is geared towards supporting men. 70% of the U.S. government is men. Most companies are owned by men. Most of the C-suite of most companies are men. Most engineers, doctors, lawyers, investors, and all other desirable, high-paying jobs are dominated by men. Just look…

That’s not a social system, that’s a rat race of men fiercely competing against each other. There’s opportunity there, but not much psychological support.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#907

Post by TchoBeer » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 3:59 PM UTC

ikt wrote: post #820

TchoBeer wrote: post #707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a long conversation with my brother, who never wanted to retire ever, and his reason was basically "what would I even do with all the time I have". My inability to answer that haunts me every day. I still don't know.

Travel? Hobbies?

I don't think both of those combined would fill my time from when I'm 40 until I die. I'd have to find something that really occupies me (like maybe I start a big open source project or something) but at that point I'm just finding work that I don't get paid for.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#908

Post by UncleMeat » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 4:00 PM UTC

twh270 wrote: post #886

madaxe_again wrote: post #792

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that, but bias is absolutely rife still. In commercial and entertainment media, it’s the woman in the kitchen, buying the groceries, raising the children, and holding down a 80 hour week job at her law firm. The man is playing ball in the yard, or is doing business in a suit. He definitely expects dinner to be on the table when he gets home from his 1950’s day job. Then there’s other people. Women get asked “…

Today, today it's culturally acceptable to ridicule, scorn, and otherwise attack men and manhood; to portray men as arrogant, abusive, and controlling. The word 'masculine' is now a derogatory term that means the same thing as 'toxic'. "Men are trash". The message is that to be a man is to be lesser, or irrelevant, or harmful to society. That there's something shameful about being a man. "There's nothing wrong with t…

"Toxic masculinity" does not mean "masculinity is toxic". The term was invented by a men's rights activist.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#909

Post by JPKab » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 4:04 PM UTC

claytongulick wrote: post #309

meowkit wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Video game addiction (overuse) is a coping mechanism in the face of increased anxiety in the modern world. I don’t think it directly causes issues as much as it enables or locks in certain behaviorally patterns such as being a NEET or similar. It’s really more of a symptom of a lack of support system in a person’s life, the same way social media overuse or drug abuse comes about. Real addictions have severe physical…

> Video game addiction (overuse) is a coping mechanism in the face of increased anxiety in the modern world. You are stating this in absolute terms, which indicates to me that you have a solid source, or are an expert in the field. If so, can you please detail? From my background working in psychiatry (in-patient) for six years, it is certainly not that clear. > Real addictions have severe physical consequences like…

I'm glad you responded because the person you were responded to exhibits typical thought patterns on addiction that I'm sure you are as frustrated by as I am.

People don't seem to understand that drugs like cocaine flood the brain with dopamine and that's exactly what these video games are designed to do by the psychologists the game companies hire. I don't get why people don't seem to understand that it's alarming when video game companies are hiring people from the gambling industry in Vegas.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#910

Post by JPKab » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 4:08 PM UTC

bluescrn wrote: post #374

UncleOxidant wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like you're being downvoted for suggesting video game addiction, but I think it's a huge part of it. I refer to it as 'digital drugs'. They're definitely addicted. Even on rare occasions when they show up to family gatherings they've got their face glued to their portable games and rarely speak. Of course, the parents played a part in enabling this. Their mom (my sis) will often suggest I buy them video games f…

Social media is the real digital crack. That’s what most people are getting their hit of when they’re staring at a screen during a family gathering. Games are the mild stuff in comparison (so long you steer clear of gambling and the ‘basically-gambling’ of loot box-based games)

Stomping out my son's fortnite and overwatch addiction was obnoxiously difficult probably because of the stupid loot box and skin phenomenon.

He was failing out of school and had lost interest in sports. I put all of his Xbox controllers in a safe and if he wants to play games he has to maintain a straight a average and be playing at least one sport or have a after-school job.

Within about 2 weeks he was back on track at school and is now a straight a student again.

Obviously this is just an anecdote but I don't think he was suffering from any form of anxiety or anything like that. He got hooked on the games and then his brain was just unable to be excited by other things for a long time.

Very few things in the real world are as optimized as the playing experience and overwatch or the social aspects of fortnite.