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Introducing the next generation of Mac

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Re: Introducing the next generation of Mac

#901

Post by AwaAwa »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #891
m12k wrote: post #876

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots and lots of people use their laptops in a way where there's little to no noticeable difference between 8GB and 16GB RAM. Why should those people pay extra for something they don't need? I think the HN crowd - with 4 docker VMs, 3 electron apps, 50 Chrome tabs, ML training, long compile times, etc - need to realize that their workloads and needs are not representative of the majority of users. It's ok for Apple t…

> It's ok for Apple to also make computers for people that are not you. Yes, it's perfectly fine to sell machines like these with specs from 2012 but their efficiency should be reflected in the price. Honestly, what Apple is doing now seems like pushing power users buing new hardware towards non-macOS systems.

Apple: Populism sells more than power users. Here's a 'free' apple sticker.

Re: Introducing the next generation of Mac

#902

Post by tallanvor »

alexott wrote: post #870
nfin wrote: post #860

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it seens that RAM is now in the package, making it very very hard (almost impossible in practical terms) to upgrade. Right? Or did I miss something?

yes, right now memory is built-in into the motherboard... So you need to buy overpriced memory from Apple (and it makes me think about leaving Apple platform)

With the new macs, the RAM is on the chip. So even the mini can't be upgraded once you buy it.

Re: Introducing the next generation of Mac

#903

Post by phaemon »

ajharrison wrote: post #631
justin66 wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps this pricing was brought about by the same head injury that caused someone in management to believe 8GB is an adequate base spec for RAM in 2020.

Seriously though what’s the connection between it being 2020 and there being more default RAM? Are you suggesting that in the year 2030 we should expect 100gb of RAM? The goal shouldn’t be to increase ageing technology but to replace it with something better.

> Are you suggesting that in the year 2030 we should expect 100gb of RAM?

You can buy a Thinkpad P15 with 128GB of RAM today, so I'd expect more like multi-TB RAM by 2030.

Re: Introducing the next generation of Mac

#904

Post by nicoburns »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #486
nicoburns wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI the storage is upgradable on these machines (and it's very straightforward to do). It's a nonstandard SSD interface, but you can official modules 2nd hand on ebay quite cheaply these days.

Do your research on the adapters though and drives. Some have issues with suspend. Make sure the hardware you add has been tested by some brave youtuber or blogger before buying anything. It looks like the actual act of repacing it isn't that bad though.

I dodged this issue by just buying official apple drives (presumably taken from broken macs).

Re: Introducing the next generation of Mac

#905

Post by rangibaby »

skohan wrote: post #609
WhyNotHugo wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although very slowly, this list of companies providing good Linux-ready laptops is growing. I do wish someone would dare ship something high-end non-amd64 (e.g.: ARM). Kinda like what we're seeing from Apple.

What's wrong with AMD?

That comment means amd64 (x86-64) CPUs not AMD (company) CPUs

Re: Introducing the next generation of Mac

#906

Post by Dunedan »

OJFord wrote: post #157
AnonHP wrote: post #140

Apple mentioned in the event that these Macs will have hardware verified secure boot. Since I’m not very knowledgeable in this area, can someone explain (or even try to guess) what this would/could mean for running Linux on these? I use Macs way beyond Apple’s support timeframe with OS X/macOS, and Linux is the one that runs on some of the older Macs and provides adequate security and security related software update…

I don't know the answer^, but how old is your current old Mac hardware? I don't know about the desktops, but Macbooks from 2016 are not well supported hardware-wise in Linux - things like no WiFi even. There was a good GitHub repo tracking it for up to I think the first touchbar Pro, and basically it was dismal then and only got worse (according to repo owner who consequently stopped bothering iirc). So.. depending w…

> There was a good GitHub repo tracking it for up to I think the first touchbar Pro, and basically it was dismal then and only got worse (according to repo owner who consequently stopped bothering iirc).

As I'm said repo owner, let me chime in here quickly to shed some light on that.

I used a 13" MacBook Pro 2016 for 3 years with Debian as my sole machine for work. When ordering it back in 2016 I wasn't sure how difficult it'd be to get Linux properly working on it, as at that point it was only known that it's possible to boot Linux, but nobody had figured out even such basics like support for the integrated input devices or the NVMe SSD yet. However as I was using Linux on Macs since 2006 I figured it'd be somehow possible to get it to work for me.

Fortunately I wasn't the only one serious about running Linux these 2016+ MacBooks, as I have very limited knowledge of the required lowlevel programming skills. What I did was to provide and moderate a Github repository (https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux) as a central place to document and discuss of the status of hardware support for these MacBook Pros, some little patches and lots of feedback and bug reports. A big shoutout to all contributors who did an incredible job at reverse engineering, implementing and upstreaming drivers for various components! That's quite an achievement for such a complex device with no public hardware documentation at all!

After a while it turned out that support for certain components would be rather difficult to get working flawlessly. As an example, even at the end of the 3 years I used the MacBook Pro, I had to use an external adapter to be able to use WiFi. With that in mind I started to reconsider why I bought Apple products: I bought them because of their superior hardware quality. But if I'm not able to use the hardware as intended, what's the point of paying a premium for Apple products? And let's just not talk about the butterfly keyboard or the horrible thermal management. So when it came to replacing my MacBook Pro, I decided to go with a Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon instead. It's not perfect, but I'm way happier now than I ever was with the MacBook Pro 2016, as the hardware just works.

As I don't own any 2016+ Apple device anymore, the help for further Linux support I can provide is limited, but I didn't stop bothering at all! I'm still actively managing said Github repository, but activity in general has significantly dropped there over time. Either the devices work well enough for other people now or they also replaced them with non-Apple hardware.

Re: Introducing the next generation of Mac

#907

Post by baybal2 »

gideon_b wrote: post #827
BatteryMountain wrote: post #794

How are companies still releasing hardware with 8GB RAM? My MacBook Air from ~2016 has 8GB of RAM. My first PC which had 8GB of RAM was built in ~2010 if I remember correctly. My current machine has 32GB. In all honesty, 32GB is not even much, considering my motherboard can take 128GB (in the old days, if your motherboard could take max 8GB RAM, people would fill all the slots to capacity). Also, I have a Lenovo mach…

Battery life is easier to market than an acronym that sounds like it's either related to trucks or sheep. RAM eats battery. Apple has made a strategic decision to pretend RAM doesn't exist, ship underpowered hardware, then brag about the battery life. This is also the reason RAM is not listed on iPhone specs. If I remember correctly the iPhone Pro 12 Max has twice as much RAM as the other 12 models and it's nowhere i…

Yes, and because people should stop making apps that take 1gb to show some text layout, and pictures.

I am very happy that with all their faults, Apple still ridicules the Webdev crowd

Re: Introducing the next generation of Mac

#909

Post by manquer »

rusticpenn wrote: post #835
gideon_b wrote: post #827

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Battery life is easier to market than an acronym that sounds like it's either related to trucks or sheep. RAM eats battery. Apple has made a strategic decision to pretend RAM doesn't exist, ship underpowered hardware, then brag about the battery life. This is also the reason RAM is not listed on iPhone specs. If I remember correctly the iPhone Pro 12 Max has twice as much RAM as the other 12 models and it's nowhere i…

The performance of the phones seem to be smooth compared to Android phones with similar ( or more) RAM. The difference comes from vertical optimization, so the raw numbers on RAM would not give us a full picture.

It is not straight comparison.

The relative openness of Android means your are not always getting the most optimized ROM , a lot of vendors add custom crapware into their phone OOTB.

Re: Introducing the next generation of Mac

#910

Post by manquer »

m12k wrote: post #876
BatteryMountain wrote: post #794

How are companies still releasing hardware with 8GB RAM? My MacBook Air from ~2016 has 8GB of RAM. My first PC which had 8GB of RAM was built in ~2010 if I remember correctly. My current machine has 32GB. In all honesty, 32GB is not even much, considering my motherboard can take 128GB (in the old days, if your motherboard could take max 8GB RAM, people would fill all the slots to capacity). Also, I have a Lenovo mach…

Lots and lots of people use their laptops in a way where there's little to no noticeable difference between 8GB and 16GB RAM. Why should those people pay extra for something they don't need? I think the HN crowd - with 4 docker VMs, 3 electron apps, 50 Chrome tabs, ML training, long compile times, etc - need to realize that their workloads and needs are not representative of the majority of users. It's ok for Apple t…

Maybe HN needs the docker VMs however I have yet to see a single laptop which doesn't atleast run 3 electon apps and 10-20 tabs in a browser.
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