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US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#901

Post by jb775 »

puranjay wrote: post #328
tannhaeuser wrote: post #324

I don't get it. It's US companies standing to loose their stronghold (near monopoly) on social, advertisement, and other forms of monetizing the web if the US creates a precedent for "national security" in this way, as in "we're welcoming social networks and free speech as long as it benefits the US and can be searched without warrant." Quite predictably, governments all over the world will be pressurized to question…

What's stopping Volkswagen from lobbying Germany to ban Teslas because all the cameras in it pose a "national security risk"? This is, by all account, a shortsighted move

The difference is that Tesla isn't headquartered in a communist nation that has the ability to take complete control of all business decisions.

Also, Tesla doesn't have 80 million monthly active users in Germany who are young & impressionable.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#902

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

will4274 wrote: post #858
alluro2 wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say "steal" and "imbalance that China has created" - you expect to move almost all design, planning and manufacturing to China gradually over decades of time, give them all the technology because they are just "low-level workers", embrace what they build themselves because it's cheaper and good enough, and for them to be happy, in perpetuum, to receive a fraction of the profits? This situation was not create…

I find your comment to be in bad faith. You failed to address Chinese bans of American companies, which was the thrust of parent's comment, and which is obviously the unfair imbalance China created. Quoting imbalance but ignoring the example is bad faith.

Very few American companies are banned from China. The parent's comment is based on false premises about the economic relationship between the US and China.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#903

Post by Cookingboy »

sidlls wrote: post #892
bradleybuda wrote: post #731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because allowing Chinese companies to operate in the US is good for American consumers. This isn’t a zero-sum game.

How is it good for American consumers? Their privacy is further eroded in service of a violently oppressive totalitarian state. Also, the companies these Chinese companies compete against do not have equal access to Chinese markets, providing a significant advantage to Chinese companies: the supposed benefit to the consumer (reduced prices due to competition) erodes quickly in such an environment.

> Also, the companies these Chinese companies compete against do not have equal access to Chinese markets

That's just not true. All American tech companies can operate in China if they follow local laws, that's why Skype and iMessage are popular in China. Chinese companies have to follow the same local laws as well. Google/Facebook, etc voluntarily pulled out of the Chinese market because they don't want to follow China's draconian tech laws.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#904

Post by tatrajim »

_lsq wrote: post #539
learnstats2 wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels unequal after this was called censorship and anti-democratic, being used as a basis for propaganda against China, for years?

No it's not. The Chinese government sets their (extremely authoritarian) rules on censorship for companies to legally operate in China but the rules apply to everyone equally. Chinese companies of course have to comply, but foreign companies have the choice to comply or not. Google chose to comply initially but decided to pull out later on. Microsoft/Apple choose to comply and are still operating in significant ways…

| Microsoft/Apple choose to comply

And look how Apple was treated. In 2015 their iBooks and iTunes Movies stores were first approved, but then six months later suddenly banned without warning or explanation. Why should China be surprised if the US reciprocates?

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/22/technology/apple-no-longe...

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#905

Post by tehwebguy »

sidlls wrote: post #892
bradleybuda wrote: post #731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because allowing Chinese companies to operate in the US is good for American consumers. This isn’t a zero-sum game.

How is it good for American consumers? Their privacy is further eroded in service of a violently oppressive totalitarian state. Also, the companies these Chinese companies compete against do not have equal access to Chinese markets, providing a significant advantage to Chinese companies: the supposed benefit to the consumer (reduced prices due to competition) erodes quickly in such an environment.

I don't think anyone cares anymore. Every ad network that slips through is probably propagating whatever data they get across all other ad networks instantly, so they are probably right not to care.

Plus, mine is but a grain of sand in China's endless beaches of data. Also, the only real solution is to use a shady VPN (that is probably owned by a government anyway).

It sucks and is terrible but I think that's just the way it is unfortunately.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#906

Post by dominotw »

baddox wrote: post #824
cwhiz wrote: post #685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China doesn’t allow many western companies to operate in China. Why should the US allow Chinese companies to operate in the US?? This is an outrage that we should not allow. They steal our intellectual property, create state funded companies that are given monopoly access to their markets, and then unleash their stolen products on the world market. And if American or other western companies try to compete on the grou…

I don’t follow the logic of “China does something that we think is bad, therefore we must do the same thing that we think is bad.”

I don’t follow the logic of “China does something that we think is bad, therefore we must just ignore it"

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#907

Post by sidlls »

Cookingboy wrote: post #903
sidlls wrote: post #892

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it good for American consumers? Their privacy is further eroded in service of a violently oppressive totalitarian state. Also, the companies these Chinese companies compete against do not have equal access to Chinese markets, providing a significant advantage to Chinese companies: the supposed benefit to the consumer (reduced prices due to competition) erodes quickly in such an environment.

> Also, the companies these Chinese companies compete against do not have equal access to Chinese markets That's just not true. All American tech companies can operate in China if they follow local laws, that's why Skype and iMessage are popular in China. Chinese companies have to follow the same local laws as well. Google/Facebook, etc voluntarily pulled out of the Chinese market because they don't want to follow Ch…

Those laws require Chinese companies to have ownership stakes, sometimes majority ownership stakes, if not explicitly then effectively. That isn't "equal access".

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#908

Post by simonebrunozzi »

godtoldmetodoit wrote: post #847
jdietrich wrote: post #804

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why should the US allow Chinese companies to operate in the US? The US gains very substantial economic benefits from being an attractive place for international companies to do business. Foreign investors know that when they invest in America, they're getting a stable regulatory environment and a reasonably trustworthy civil legal system. If America decides to undermine that trust for short-term gain, there will be…

I highly doubt China has more levers then the US when it comes to a trade war. China can't feed itself past subsistence level without imports. https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-feeding-china/ China runs on oil just like every other modern economy, and they have pitiful amounts locally. They are the largest importer in the world and they absolutely need it to keep flowing. https://www.forbes.com/sites/judeclemen…

Don't forget coal [0]:

"Coal remains the foundation of the Chinese energy system, covering close to 70 percent of the country's primary energy needs and representing 80 percent of the fuel used in electricity generation"

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_policy_of_China

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#909

Post by all_usernames »

godtoldmetodoit wrote: post #847
jdietrich wrote: post #804

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why should the US allow Chinese companies to operate in the US? The US gains very substantial economic benefits from being an attractive place for international companies to do business. Foreign investors know that when they invest in America, they're getting a stable regulatory environment and a reasonably trustworthy civil legal system. If America decides to undermine that trust for short-term gain, there will be…

I highly doubt China has more levers then the US when it comes to a trade war. China can't feed itself past subsistence level without imports. https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-feeding-china/ China runs on oil just like every other modern economy, and they have pitiful amounts locally. They are the largest importer in the world and they absolutely need it to keep flowing. https://www.forbes.com/sites/judeclemen…

> The US can feed itself domestically

...for about 20 more years, if soil quality and climate predictions are accurate.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#910

Post by grasshopperpurp »

jbay808 wrote: post #880
baddox wrote: post #824

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t follow the logic of “China does something that we think is bad, therefore we must do the same thing that we think is bad.”

The US is announcing aluminum tariffs against Canada. Canada's PM announces that aluminum tarrifs are a bad idea and hurt everybody, but until the US gets rid of them, Canada will match them dollar for dollar with its own aluminum tarrifs. Do you follow the logic in this case?

Good example of how the US is hurting itself by picking petty fights with friends instead of unifying against China.
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