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College Dropouts Thrive in Tech

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Re: College Dropouts Thrive in Tech

#91

Post by geoelectric »

Zelphyr wrote: post #68
rconti wrote: post #59

“It’s almost a bigger risk to stay in school and let people like me drop out and start things before you have a chance,” he says. That says it all, for me. It's an incredibly shortsighted view that there are real opportunity costs to time spend in college, as if you'll only have one good idea in your lifetime. It's kind of a lottery ticket mindset. College is absolutely a luxury good, and you can get by without it. B…

education is worthwhile for it's own non-vocational merits I completely agree (despite being a college dropout) and it speaks to my thought that we've been selling secondary education the wrong way. "Go to college and get a good job!" seems to be progressively becoming "Go to college and have a lot of debt!" Perhaps we should be selling it as "Go to college and get a great education that will benefit you in countless…

The debt is my major issue with portraying college as something everyone should (or worse, needs to) do, no matter how you want to sell the benefit.

It's not just the number itself, it's about training young people that being tens of thousands of dollars in undischargable debt without capital collateral to back it up is a normal thing.

Re: College Dropouts Thrive in Tech

#92

Post by philangist »

rconti wrote: post #59

“It’s almost a bigger risk to stay in school and let people like me drop out and start things before you have a chance,” he says. That says it all, for me. It's an incredibly shortsighted view that there are real opportunity costs to time spend in college, as if you'll only have one good idea in your lifetime. It's kind of a lottery ticket mindset. College is absolutely a luxury good, and you can get by without it. B…

> I had a job in tech for a few years out of high school before I went to college.

Can you speak about what your experience was like? I'm currently working as a backend developer in new york and I'm planning on starting a CS degree at CUNY Hunter this fall, so I'm curious to hear about other people's experiences with working and going to school at the same time.

Re: College Dropouts Thrive in Tech

#93

Post by meatysnapper »

Bostonian wrote: post #88
meatysnapper wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

College Admissions are exactly an IQ test of sorts. Getting in is all that matters. I'll make the argument that a college CS degree does very little to prepare you for practical software engineering or being a good programmer. I do not have a CS education, but I know many people that do, from top schools. They are productive, but I would never consider them to be "A" players. Someone who passes the IQ test and then g…

It's an IQ test with a lower threshold if you are a great athlete, the child of an alumnus, especially one who donates a lot, or an under-represented minority. I think there is an opportunity for employers who use IQ tests without the added noise the college admissions process imposes.

If I remember correctly, you are not allowed to administer IQ tests for hiring in the US.

Re: College Dropouts Thrive in Tech

#94

Post by geoelectric »

wheaties wrote: post #66
ChuckMcM wrote: post #35

During the dot.com bubble I interviewed a number of people who had dropped out of college to jump into work. In general they did not have any trouble finding work. However when the bubble burst and the job market crashed dramatically, those same people were unreasonably discriminated against as there were plenty of 'degreed' people to fill positions so the folks without at least a bachelors degree were having a hard…

The biggest issue wasn't that they didn't have a degree. The issue was that during the boom anyone could slap "web developer" on their resume and get a job. _Those_ people had wonderful resumes, could not do FizzBuzz to save their lives and generally lacked a college degree. So, in order to lazily screen bad applicants, companies decided in large part not to hire non-degreed candidates.

I think something people don't take into account is that most of the jobs weren't (and still aren't) filled in with randoms off the street. They're filled because you know someone who recommends you into the position.

The late 90s were full of "I've used a computer so I'm a tech" type people you're talking about--they got their jobs because they had a buddy who got a job, and it was easy to get your friends placed in the next desk.

But you generally knew who you partied with at work and who actually got stuff done, and those people were not the ones who got recommended into a job when times were tight. The jobs were still there to some extent, but proven people were pulled into them before they even hit a recruiter.

Re: College Dropouts Thrive in Tech

#95

Post by meatysnapper »

thoward wrote: post #81

Met a couple of these guys in my career in tech. Two were DevOps engineers who had no college but made themselves indispensable. One was a guy who had only a smattering of Java but became a really useful Salesforce platform developer. Our VP of Sales had him on speed dial and he had a LOT of consulting clients on the side. All of these people were men, and I'm pretty sure they all earned over six figures. I've met a…

In college, in STEM, it seemed like all of the smartest women ran straight to academia and married a rich tech dude. The incentives are aligned nicely there.

The smartest guys on the whole seemed to go into industry or start their own companies.

I unfortunately was not smart enough for academia, and as a man have not found a rich woman willing to subsidize my lifestyle.

Re: College Dropouts Thrive in Tech

#96

Post by conradev »

justinpaulson wrote: post #86

If you want to do real engineering and solve hard problems, stay in school. If you want to build a flashy media app or a social network, drop out. There is much more depth in an engineering degree than you get from just learning a language on your own and hacking away at an app. There is more to engineering than just being able to code, and if you want to really solve the hard problems, you will need to study. Colleg…

I agree with the last sentence, but not the first and second. The first implies that the only way to learn computer science is in school, and the second attempts to stereotype products built by those who drop out of college. I understand the sentiment, but I think it's possible to both create real value and not go to school. That's one of the points that this article is trying to make.

I also think that framing all hard problems as engineering problems is an engineering-centric view. Depending on the product, sometimes designing the user experience to be seamless is just as hard as building the technical foundation.

Re: College Dropouts Thrive in Tech

#98

Post by sjg007 »

philangist wrote: post #92
rconti wrote: post #59

“It’s almost a bigger risk to stay in school and let people like me drop out and start things before you have a chance,” he says. That says it all, for me. It's an incredibly shortsighted view that there are real opportunity costs to time spend in college, as if you'll only have one good idea in your lifetime. It's kind of a lottery ticket mindset. College is absolutely a luxury good, and you can get by without it. B…

> I had a job in tech for a few years out of high school before I went to college. Can you speak about what your experience was like? I'm currently working as a backend developer in new york and I'm planning on starting a CS degree at CUNY Hunter this fall, so I'm curious to hear about other people's experiences with working and going to school at the same time.

You should actually diversify your education. Take the CS core, but also take psychology, sociology, etc... Steve Jobs took a class on calligraphy at one point. Or if you like math, try to take as much math and stats you can handle.

Re: College Dropouts Thrive in Tech

#99

Post by Zelphyr »

geoelectric wrote: post #91
Zelphyr wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

education is worthwhile for it's own non-vocational merits I completely agree (despite being a college dropout) and it speaks to my thought that we've been selling secondary education the wrong way. "Go to college and get a good job!" seems to be progressively becoming "Go to college and have a lot of debt!" Perhaps we should be selling it as "Go to college and get a great education that will benefit you in countless…

The debt is my major issue with portraying college as something everyone should (or worse, needs to) do, no matter how you want to sell the benefit. It's not just the number itself, it's about training young people that being tens of thousands of dollars in undischargable debt without capital collateral to back it up is a normal thing.

Its my understanding (someone feel free to correct me) that the cost of a local community college is still perfectly reasonable and you're still getting a decent education. I don't know what the difference is between those and Stanford from a quality of education standpoint but, anecdotally, one of the most brilliant programmers I've ever met went to the local community college.
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