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College Dropouts Thrive in Tech

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Re: College Dropouts Thrive in Tech

#52

During the dot.com bubble I interviewed a number of people who had dropped out of college to jump into work. In general they did not have any trouble finding work. However when the bubble burst and the job market crashed dramatically, those same people were unreasonably discriminated against as there were plenty of 'degreed' people to fill positions so the folks without at least a bachelors degree were having a hard…

It really depended on demonstrable experience more than anything.

The problem was that for awhile after the bust you could only get jobs if you were senior, and even then you might be taking junior/intermediate jobs (and pay) even though you had senior experience. If you were intermediate + a degree, you might make it over the line, but intermediate and no degree, or junior and no degree, not so much. But honestly, the biggest selector there was still your resume.

So yeah, there was definitely a shakeout, but it mostly involved that boom of people who'd joined between, say, 1999 and 2001 and didn't have any significant credentials, learned OTJ or otherwise. If you had at least four or five years under your belt and a "Sr. *" on your resume you were much more likely to survive the bust.

There were also a burst of companies around then (Google primarily, and a bunch of follow-ons) that heavily selected on college graduates, and those from the Stanford+Ivy set. That loosened up relatively quickly, though, and if you knew someone internal and could get past the recruiters and had a good resume, you could still overcome that.

I do think the next time a bust comes around, Github portfolios will probably mitigate some of the education issue. The point is to make it clear you're the best bet of the bunch, no matter what the context is.

(edit: typos)

Re: College Dropouts Thrive in Tech

#55

During the dot.com bubble I interviewed a number of people who had dropped out of college to jump into work. In general they did not have any trouble finding work. However when the bubble burst and the job market crashed dramatically, those same people were unreasonably discriminated against as there were plenty of 'degreed' people to fill positions so the folks without at least a bachelors degree were having a hard…

hm. that wasn't my experience (I have no degree, and started my career in the late 90s) - as far as I can tell, the period after the crash was about contacts, mostly, and secondarily about attitude.

In my experience, a "regular" or below school doesn't help at all. Hell, my side project employed some people with 'regular school' degrees. Of course, a rich person's school helps a lot, but now we're back to contacts.

The big difference I noticed about the crash was that my attitude... the combination of being cynical, honest, and the fact that yes, I will tell you if you are making me do something stupid, but I'll still do it, usually... my attitude works really well during the down times, and not nearly as well during the good times.

During the good times, as far as I can tell, there is a premium placed on yes men and others who are willing to drink the kool-aid, and those people? those people are absolutely destroyed by the crash.

But yeah, I still kind of prefer working during the crash. It's not any harder for me to get jobs; and I know it's shitty of me to say it, I certainly wouldn't wish a crash upon those people, but it's way easier for me to hire good people for my side projects when the economy is down.

Re: College Dropouts Thrive in Tech

#56

During the dot.com bubble I interviewed a number of people who had dropped out of college to jump into work. In general they did not have any trouble finding work. However when the bubble burst and the job market crashed dramatically, those same people were unreasonably discriminated against as there were plenty of 'degreed' people to fill positions so the folks without at least a bachelors degree were having a hard…

I also know people who had no career at all before the bubble. But managed to make one as Project Manager/Product Manager/Other tech support roles. Just because they managed to get jobs before the crash and make a career by moving around to other companies in the country.

Re: College Dropouts Thrive in Tech

#57
post #37

During the dot.com bubble I interviewed a number of people who had dropped out of college to jump into work. In general they did not have any trouble finding work. However when the bubble burst and the job market crashed dramatically, those same people were unreasonably discriminated against as there were plenty of 'degreed' people to fill positions so the folks without at least a bachelors degree were having a hard…

It's always good to have, no matter what, and it would be extremely easy to just say you don't have it if it was a negative or worthless. The problem is - opportunity cost.

>The problem is - opportunity cost.

Yeah. It was the late 90s before I got anything but a desktop support job. If I had gone to college rather than getting a real job in '97-98? I would have been looking for my first real job in 2001-2002. I would have been so screwed.

As it was, I had a few years to prove my competence, and with some help from some contacts (okay, okay, my dad's contacts) I stayed fairly well-employed through the bust.

Part of me kind of wishes that I took some time out later, after I had established myself, to go back to college. Mostly for social and "personal enrichment" reasons. but I totally don't regret getting a job right out of high school. I think that made the difference between me and my brothers.

Re: College Dropouts Thrive in Tech

#58

Three spring to mind: Michael Dell, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates

There success is more related with their superior IQ than their college attendance.

They're probably not all that smart. They're persistent, dedicated, hardworking. But I've seen Bill Gate's code, and its bad.

Typically its B students that run the world.

Re: College Dropouts Thrive in Tech

#59
“It’s almost a bigger risk to stay in school and let people like me drop out and start things before you have a chance,” he says.

That says it all, for me. It's an incredibly shortsighted view that there are real opportunity costs to time spend in college, as if you'll only have one good idea in your lifetime. It's kind of a lottery ticket mindset.

College is absolutely a luxury good, and you can get by without it. But it's a great experience for most people, and education is worthwhile for it's own non-vocational merits.

I had a job in tech for a few years out of high school before I went to college. Either path is fine. I'm glad I went to college, even though it didn't directly prepare me for my career.

Re: College Dropouts Thrive in Tech

#60

The article focuses on kids who drop out of college to start businesses. That's great but there are ways to succeed in tech without trying to build the next InstaBookSpaceGram. I'm a college dropout who I guess you could say is thriving in tech but I didn't start a business and don't have much of an entrepreneurial spirit. A little about me: I wrote my first line of code when i was 12 (perl) and went on to dabble in…

> The article focuses on kids who drop out of college to start businesses. That's great but there are ways to succeed in tech without trying to build the next InstaBookSpaceGram. I'm a college dropout who I guess you could say is thriving in tech but I didn't start a business and don't have much of an entrepreneurial spirit.

I think that's interesting. Probably the hardest time I've ever had getting a job (seriously, I went to like five or ten interviews. It was terrifying) was actually fairly recently, in a bubbly time, when I was trying to get a job after running my own company for a few years. I mean, granted, I was also really, really depressed and I was applying for 'devops' jobs with a lot of sysadmin experience, but still, I've never had a hard time getting jobs I wasn't qualified for before.

One of the jobs even cited something about how I wasn't a good cultural fit because I was used to running my own business.

I thought that last part was really funny, because I always thought of "cultural fit" as a codeword for "white" - I mean, it could also have been "he seemed really depressed" at that point, but eh, whatever.

I did end up getting the first actual sysadmin position I interviewed for, so the whole lesson could just be that "devops does not mean sysadmin with programming chops" - but like I said, never in my life have I had a hard time getting tech jobs I wasn't qualified for.

Still, I think that if you run a business and fail, you are much worse off, in the eyes of your next employer, than if you are a tech monkey for a large company and you get laid off or whatever.

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