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It's Time to Break Up the NSA (2014)

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Re: It's Time to Break Up the NSA (2014)

#91

This reminds me a little of the breakup of the Atomic Energy Commission. The AEC was supposed regulate and promote nuclear energy. This conflict of interest was recognized in the 70s and it was split into the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and ERDA (which soon became the DOE).

This reminds me of the surreal world of the stock market, where organizations largely make their own rules and regulate and enforce them themselves.

In 1971, the National Association of Securities Dealers (NASD) gave birth to NASDAQ, which became publicly traded in 2000, and then a national securities exchange in 2006. NASDAQ wasn't really independent of NASD until 2000, so for a while the same people who owned the exchange also regulated it.

The NYSE is much older and became a Not-for-Profit in 1971. In 2006 it merged with ArcaEx and became a publicly owned for-profit, later merging with Euronext in 2007 and acquiring AMEX in 2008.

Here's the weird thing: exchanges are supposed to self-regulate, with the SEC basically just approving the rules they make for themselves. And the exchanges kind of 'outsource' their regulation - but not all of it - and that's not all that well defined anyway.

In 2007, NASD's and NYSE's regulatory and enforcement committees were merged into a new organization, FINRA, which basically makes the rules their members are supposed to abide by and enforces them in coordination with the SEC.

The SEC has been investigating exchanges since the "flash crash" of 2010, when it was shown how completely fragile the market had become by large players making very large trades, as well as new high-frequency automated trading.

In 2011, NYSE Euronext tried to merge with Deutsche Börse, which would have become the largest stock market in the world by far. It actually passed US antitrust investigation. But in 2012 the European Commission blocked the merger as it would have created a 93% monopoly on European derivatives trading. This doesn't have anything to do with the exchanges violating rules, but it does show how without regulation, monopolies would be a virtual certainty.

In 2012 NYSE was fined 5 million for giving data to its customers before the public. In 2014 NYSE was fined 4.5 million when it was found to have violated its own rules, or lacked rules it should have had.

Compare this to NASDAQ settling with the SEC for 10 million just for mishandling Facebook's IPO in 2013. This is apparently because the SEC stopped short of finding the NYSE's actions as felonies. And all of this is relatively new, as exchanges historically were never legally scrutinized or punished for their actions. (Their revenue is in the billions, so these fines are basically just for show)

Re: It's Time to Break Up the NSA (2014)

#92

the NSA's surveillance is an unprecedented power grab. add Moore's Law to the mix, let that policy sit for 20 years, and what kind of power do they have? they can predict everything, they can track everything, they have no oversight - what they're doing is setting themselves up to completely replace the government in 2035. hopefully, that's not deliberate. hopefully, they're just that naively convinced of their own g…

Yeah, you hit the nail on the head.

Right now it's Orwellian and sophisticated-- if they have Amazon's level of data crunching and prediction ability, they might be able to predict certain things about you, and, on average, be more right than wrong.

Wait until they have 20 more years of data on you, and 20 more years of advancing the quality of their algorithms and machine intelligences. You will be owned, and your buttons will be pushed as necessary to maintain what has already been built.

Re: It's Time to Break Up the NSA (2014)

#93

It's easy to casually propose such things, on a blog, while lobbing the same tired criticisms about over-zealous intelligence gathering programs. But to actually implement such grand, sweeping measures would require resources that don't justify the benefits. Just scale back and increase oversight on troubling programs, and otherwise let the NSA do its critical job as an intelligence gathering agency.

Finally, a pragmatic voice amongst those calling for an anarchist solution. I will add my vote to those calling for increased oversight, and regulation over the all out "scrapping" of these programs.

If you take it as a given that the NSA is spying on all parties, that includes those supposedly providing oversight. Those providing oversight can then be coerced into rubber-stamping whatever the NSA wishes. Therefore, "increased oversight" is all but impossible.

Re: It's Time to Break Up the NSA (2014)

#94

It's easy to casually propose such things, on a blog, while lobbing the same tired criticisms about over-zealous intelligence gathering programs. But to actually implement such grand, sweeping measures would require resources that don't justify the benefits. Just scale back and increase oversight on troubling programs, and otherwise let the NSA do its critical job as an intelligence gathering agency.

Finally, a pragmatic voice amongst those calling for an anarchist solution. I will add my vote to those calling for increased oversight, and regulation over the all out "scrapping" of these programs.

[deleted]

Re: It's Time to Break Up the NSA (2014)

#95
The NSA is probably the worst-case of the general public not trusting government institutions. However, it seems that government has lost trust across all functions, despite only marginal increase in corruption. Is new, faster communication just making us more acutely away of the corruption that inevitably happens? I don't think it's bad to be aware, but we really need to learn to scale our response. A program can have a % of corruption and still achieve success. Also, I wonder whether mistrust of institutions stems from the record wealth disparity. In general, institutions seem much less trustworthy when a small percentage of people can disproportionately influence them.

Re: It's Time to Break Up the NSA (2014)

#96
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

honestly, would you rather be at war or be secretly spied on? No contest!! You need to reject this as a false choice. Unsolicited movie recommendation for you: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405094/

Other worth watching, to all those who live by "I don't care, I have nothing to hide mantra:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088846/

Spoiler: it's not what you consider worth hiding, it's how the government will interpret it.

Re: It's Time to Break Up the NSA (2014)

#97
post #95

The NSA is probably the worst-case of the general public not trusting government institutions. However, it seems that government has lost trust across all functions, despite only marginal increase in corruption. Is new, faster communication just making us more acutely away of the corruption that inevitably happens? I don't think it's bad to be aware, but we really need to learn to scale our response. A program can ha…

While the level of corruption may not be that much bigger, the ability of the corrupt to cause harm has greatly increase through use of modern technology.

Re: It's Time to Break Up the NSA (2014)

#98
post #87
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People being inconvenient in pushing for social change are insufficiently protected. The CIA spied on MLK Jr., discovered he was having affairs, and used that to try to blackmail him into committing suicide. If he had, that would have been a major loss to society. And now we have reports of the NSA developing dossiers of minor crimes and non-crimes of inconvenient people's behaviors for future use in discrediting the…

>The CIA spied on MLK Jr., discovered he was having affairs, and used that to try to blackmail him into committing suicide. Have you got any more on this? Would be interested to read.

This story covers it. FBI, not CIA.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/16/magazine/what-an-uncensore...

Re: It's Time to Break Up the NSA (2014)

#99
post #73
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1- tor is broken. 2- they know and use ways to get around encrypting. We got to give them some credit they knew encryption was an issue that at some point they had to dealt with. And they found ways to do just that from the beginning.

they don't even need to break encryption. Patriot Act.

If I encrypt something client-side, the Patriot Act has no influence over it whatsoever. The only person who can decrypt it is me.

So, yes, they do need to break encryption. Especially as more and more apps move towards the "smart/encrypted client, dumb server as a storage dump" model.

Re: It's Time to Break Up the NSA (2014)

#100

I don't understand why society thinks that certain things can be contained, while certain other things cannot be. The liberals will always be telling you that the drug war is a failure, and that drug users will be able to get their hands on drugs anyway, and we should embrace that fact so we can retain some level of control, and so otherwise innocent people don't have to interact with criminals. But guns on the other…

letsencrypt.org looks like an awesome project! Can't wait to try it out.
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