How hard is it to get a job in the US for an EU citizen? I've heard that one could wait for up to 2 years for a visa, so most small/middle-sized companies just don't bother and hire only US-based developers. Is it any easier for people with degrees in compsci?
Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas
91–100 of 140 posts
Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
Software dev is definitely a middle class job in China, but in HK, it's only considered marginally better than clerical work. Labor in Greater China for any job other than the most exploitative ones (finance, sales, insurance, legal, upper management) are treated like dirt in general. Don't even get me started on the hours and the lack of benefits and incentives.
I find that odd. The jobs you mentioned (finance, sales, insurance, legal, upper management), with the exception being upper management, will most likely net you less than what a developer makes here in the U.S. I should mention that those salaries are much more variable than developer salaries. It's not uncommon to find an insurance salesmen make less than $50k per year, but it also wouldn't be uncommon to find one…
In Germany, all those jobs you mention will also make more/much more than a developer. I think the tech sector in the US is very strong and competes for devs.
Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's low to you? Wow. Just wow. Over here in Europe (or at least Germany) salaries are incredibly uniform (doesn't really matter if you suck or get as much done in a day as others in 1-2 weeks; if your bugs get constantly reopened or your code is rock-solid), and most people seem to get maybe 35-50k€ after graduation (diploma/master's degree).
I partially disagree. I know people, IT contractors(.NET) that got 490 euro/day in Germany
Ok, but salaries are much lower than contractor rates, probably half.
Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's low to you? Wow. Just wow. Over here in Europe (or at least Germany) salaries are incredibly uniform (doesn't really matter if you suck or get as much done in a day as others in 1-2 weeks; if your bugs get constantly reopened or your code is rock-solid), and most people seem to get maybe 35-50k€ after graduation (diploma/master's degree).
I'll reiterate OP and say that these seem low to me as well...and dare I say that I still think Software Developers are underpaid?! These employees are bringing in billions of dollars for these companies and for them to still receive Think about this. You get into work at 8am and you leave work at 8pm. You manage a team of engineers that are literally building the foundation for the future of the company. Your entire…
> You get into work at 8am and you leave work at 8pm
To be comparable, a salary number should reflect a full time work week, and be for a position which TWO people can hold, full time, while still having time to pick up kids. Obviously if I worked 12h days I'd be supporting my partner who could NOT have the same full time job. Not sure what these figures represent, I thought they were regular day-jobs, which you could hold while still having a meaningful work/life balance?
> These employees are bringing in billions of dollars for these companies and for them to still receive The same can be said for employees of any large corporation. Sure you may be more or less replaceable, but still: the dollars brought in are return on risk by investors. It's no more appalling than fast food workers being paid peanuts in fast food chains that make a billion.
Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas
#95Why are tech salaries so low? Especially from these companies with large profit margins and huge revenue per employee numbers. It seems like engineers have captured almost nothing of the fruit of their labors.
FWIW, I think this only shows data for base salaries. My total comp is almost 2x my base salary. I believe that's pretty typical at Google.
You consistently get paid a 100% bonus every year at Google?
Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas
#96Why are tech salaries so low? Especially from these companies with large profit margins and huge revenue per employee numbers. It seems like engineers have captured almost nothing of the fruit of their labors.
That's low to you? Wow. Just wow. Over here in Europe (or at least Germany) salaries are incredibly uniform (doesn't really matter if you suck or get as much done in a day as others in 1-2 weeks; if your bugs get constantly reopened or your code is rock-solid), and most people seem to get maybe 35-50k€ after graduation (diploma/master's degree).
35-50k€ is low, even for Western European standards. You cannot compare it to US salaries given the enormous differences in social structure when it comes to healthcare etcetera.
But still: tech salaries in Europe are low, and are being systematically depressed. The influx of relatively cheap engineers from Eastern EU countries is one influence, but not even such a big one, since most of them pretty quickly catch up (the tech culture means they're not easily isolated and exploited like other migrant workers).
The biggest depressing influence is simply social status: despite the scarcity, despite the value they add, there is an enormous resistance against awarding higher salaries to "nerds".
Now that I operate at management level, I experience this first hand. Everything adds up: our budget, the economics, the scarcity. We should easily be able to offer 30% higher salaries and still make out just fine, and it's the only way to compete with a handful of enlightened companies that pay well and the lure of self-employment (the only other way for engineers to break through the salary ceiling).
Nothing stands in the way of paying engineers better, except social status: paying a software engineer the same as (or more than) a manager is unthinkable. Despite the fact that those managers are less scarce, less skilled and add less value.
Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not too sure about that. Yes, if you compare the average American to the average European, you make more and have to pay for more things, so it more or less evens out. But developer salaries - definitely not.
No, it doesn't really even out at all. There are several factors you're neglecting to consider here. The salaries listed here are in our highest cost of living areas. The vast majority of developers aren't earning anywhere near these wages. Most are in the $50,000-$90,000 range (not too far off of your EUR$35k - $50k figures). Second, I think you're discounting far too heavily how much extra the average American has…
Well, a 50k salary will net you I'm surprised by the (low) 50-90k salaries you mention. I've always read much higher numbers. Probably due to the bias on blogs/news sites to West Coast companies.
Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
For what it's worth, I work for a company that has offices in both Atlanta (which is probably a relatively low-wage market) and San Francisco. I was given a choice between the two offices (I lived in SF at the time of the offer but was looking to move) and was offered X in Atlanta or about 1.2X in SF. (I took Atlanta, by the way. The cost of living difference is much larger than 20%.)
No kidding! I just checked Atlanta vs SF cost of living out of curiosity. SF cost of living is almost twice and rent cost is almost triple. Crazy!
When I was thinking of moving and looking into what the tech scene was like in Atlanta, I found this post on "startups for grownups": http://academicvc.com/2013/07/05/startups-for-grownups/ .
Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
FWIW, I think this only shows data for base salaries. My total comp is almost 2x my base salary. I believe that's pretty typical at Google.
You consistently get paid a 100% bonus every year at Google?
My total comp - including salary, bonuses and equity is regularly almost 2x my base salary.
Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas
#100Why are tech salaries so low? Especially from these companies with large profit margins and huge revenue per employee numbers. It seems like engineers have captured almost nothing of the fruit of their labors.
For many of these bay area engineers, the compensation in equity is more than their salary.
Equity "compensation" is only compensation if the equity is actually worth something. At most big companies equity compensation is worth something but generally not even close to 100% of base salary (or even close to it). At (most) startups the equity is a joke that the owners and employees delude themselves into thinking is not one.