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Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas

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Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas

#41

Post by thejdude »

ryanSrich wrote: post #26
thejdude wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's low to you? Wow. Just wow. Over here in Europe (or at least Germany) salaries are incredibly uniform (doesn't really matter if you suck or get as much done in a day as others in 1-2 weeks; if your bugs get constantly reopened or your code is rock-solid), and most people seem to get maybe 35-50k€ after graduation (diploma/master's degree).

I'll reiterate OP and say that these seem low to me as well...and dare I say that I still think Software Developers are underpaid?! These employees are bringing in billions of dollars for these companies and for them to still receive Think about this. You get into work at 8am and you leave work at 8pm. You manage a team of engineers that are literally building the foundation for the future of the company. Your entire…

Depends. Maybe you should get a bonus if your work really has such an impact. And if you talk managing a team, that's not a developer position, that's a lead position (to me anyway).

Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas

#42

Post by thejdude »

Iftheshoefits wrote: post #25
thejdude wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's low to you? Wow. Just wow. Over here in Europe (or at least Germany) salaries are incredibly uniform (doesn't really matter if you suck or get as much done in a day as others in 1-2 weeks; if your bugs get constantly reopened or your code is rock-solid), and most people seem to get maybe 35-50k€ after graduation (diploma/master's degree).

Here in the US we basically have little or no social safety net, and certainly few meaningful regulations and laws protecting labor. Our "wow just wow" salaries have less buying power than yours, because any difference in the margins is eaten up by having to use the additional salary for basic services you would be able to (mostly) take for granted as being government supplied (via taxation and other means).

I'm not too sure about that. Yes, if you compare the average American to the average European, you make more and have to pay for more things, so it more or less evens out.

But developer salaries - definitely not.

Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas

#43

Post by untog »

thejdude wrote: post #36
untog wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bear in mind that the US is severely out of whack in terms of work/life balance. It's one of the things I find most difficult about living here - when I first arrived I had 10 days vacation a year. I currently only have 15. And don't forget to factor in healthcare costs and the like. Money certainly isn't everything.

Yes, but healthcare is a few 100 bucks a month, which we pay too, only for us it's mandatory by government. Vacation sounds like a real problem, but it seems like you could circumvent that by going freelance and just taking off x days a year between projects.

Well, on a visa you certainly can't.

Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas

#44

Post by captainaj »

kissickas wrote: post #20
captainaj wrote: post #13

Engineers are just middle class who didn't get screwed. The real bubble is in the medical industry and Wall Street and it's not gonna pop any time soon.

Some would say that the medical industry isn't seeing a bubble, as much of the inflation in prices and salaries is going straight to the insurance companies - so the real bubble is in Wall Street and Wall Street.

Yes the cost of health care is extremely inflated. However, it is not just insurance companies who benefit from this trend. Doctors' base salary is 189k while investment bank associates (2 years experience) get paid around that with salary and bonus. Most of the doctors I know are millionaires.

Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas

#46

Post by blue11 »

simonsarris wrote: post #15

Why are tech salaries so low? Especially from these companies with large profit margins and huge revenue per employee numbers. It seems like engineers have captured almost nothing of the fruit of their labors.

The salaries aren't low. The data capture mostly the lower end of the distribution. Keep in mind that the data are from H1-B visa applications, so these are relatively low level positions. There are lots of recent graduates (foreign students who studied in US universities) starting in their first full time jobs. There are also more experienced engineers hired directly from abroad, but they are somewhat of an unknown quantity and there is a higher risk premium, so their salaries are also a little on the lower side.

After a few of years on the job their salaries will be higher, but by that time they will also get green cards, so they won't show up in these statistics anymore.

Also, stock is not included in the data.

Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas

#47

Post by madcaptenor »

cagriaksay wrote: post #29

We recently used salary prediction data to come up with salary charts and maps as well: https://salaryfairy.com/salary One interesting finding was that not only SF salaries are much higher compared to rest of the US, but users from SF tend to over-estimate how much the rest of the country is making. You can see this effect in the third map at https://salaryfairy.com/blog/first-10k-users-salary-maps-and...

For what it's worth, I work for a company that has offices in both Atlanta (which is probably a relatively low-wage market) and San Francisco. I was given a choice between the two offices (I lived in SF at the time of the offer but was looking to move) and was offered X in Atlanta or about 1.2X in SF.

(I took Atlanta, by the way. The cost of living difference is much larger than 20%.)

Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas

#48

Post by potatolicious »

fooaway wrote: post #31
kelukelugames wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest the numbers sound low. This could be because visa holders don't have a lot of leverage when negotiating. I have seen much higher paystubs and offer letters for the listed companies in Seattle. And I imagine the valley and NYC pays more than Seattle despite some companies claiming they don't change pay based on location.

Low? They seem high! Is this total comp or just base?

These numbers seem low for just base. $120K in NYC for a senior engineer is low - anecdotally I see it more at $150-170K nowadays.

I don't think there's a good reason why a capable, senior engineer would entertain a total comp under $200K these days in NYC - and I know many companies here that play with these numbers.

I think the fact that these are labor cert numbers definitely skews the data downwards.

Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas

#49

Post by agilecoder »

As I've commented on other stories like this...

The biggest thing to know about these data from the US Department of Labor (DOL) is that they DO NOT reflect visas granted. They reflect Labor Condition Applications (LCAs) granted. denied, etc. This is only one part of the application for a visa, and every year the DOL certifies far more LCAs than there are available visas.

It is impossible to tell from the LCA data what companies actually followed through with the rest of the process and fees and were able to sponsor a foreign worker before the visa cap was hit each year. That information would come from US Citizenship and Immigration Service, and as far as I can find they do not release that information.

Re: Tech salary insights from 1.2M foreign worker visas

#50

Post by ryanSrich »

wyuenho wrote: post #38
thejdude wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's low to you? Wow. Just wow. Over here in Europe (or at least Germany) salaries are incredibly uniform (doesn't really matter if you suck or get as much done in a day as others in 1-2 weeks; if your bugs get constantly reopened or your code is rock-solid), and most people seem to get maybe 35-50k€ after graduation (diploma/master's degree).

Hey ah guys. Most devs in HK earn < 30k USD a year. China is half that, Taiwan is even worse. When you factor in how freaking expensive everything is in HK, especially real estate, HK devs in general are basically slave labors.

In the U.S. a Software Development(dev, designer, etc.) job is a middle class role. What is a developer in china? Lower class? What is a middleman class job then?

EDIT: Should probably define middleman class then...I guess I'd have to say, being able to purchase a house, pay off student debt in less than 10 years, afford to have children, buy a car, go to events and maintain a relatively comfortable lifestyle.

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