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LIVE NOW: Glenn Greenwald, Assange, and Kim Dot Com in NZ

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Re: LIVE NOW: Glenn Greenwald, Assange, and Kim Dot Com in NZ

#91

Post by tomp »

junto wrote: post #57

While I find Dotcom to be a epitome of a shill, I doubt Greenwald or Snowden would back this particular claim if they truly believed it was false. Both Snowden and Greenwald have choosen to honour the truth above their own safety and security. Both of them are also acutely aware of the fact that standing shoulder-to-shoulder with Dotcom reflects poorly on their own integrity. Maybe the USG leaked this email as a 'fal…

> While I find Dotcom to be a epitome of a shill, I doubt Greenwald or Snowden would back this particular claim if they truly believed it was false.

Can I just ask you, what's the claim? I cannot watch the video at this time (I'm at work)...

Re: LIVE NOW: Glenn Greenwald, Assange, and Kim Dot Com in NZ

#92

Post by jacquesm »

tomp wrote: post #90
jacquesm wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to speculate on what Assange's real motivations are for hiding out in that embassy, he's said enough on the subject and whether you agree with him or not that those are his true motivations is between you and him. So no, he hasn't been convicted and/or charged and as such calling him a rapist is getting ahead of the timeline. What he does in the meantime doesn't change that one bit.

I think calling him a rapist is correct. AFAIK, no-one (including him and his lawyers) is contesting the accusations against him, including the one that he had sex with a sleeping woman, which IMO is definitely rape. Of course, I still think that the whole charade around having him extradited to Sweden for questioning is just a tiny little bit too convenient for the powers-that-be to think it's only about the rape.

Have a read:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/aug/23/women-a...

That is one piece that speaks strongly to me, mostly because of the position the women that wrote it take.

Re: LIVE NOW: Glenn Greenwald, Assange, and Kim Dot Com in NZ

#93

Post by davidgerard »

junto wrote: post #57

While I find Dotcom to be a epitome of a shill, I doubt Greenwald or Snowden would back this particular claim if they truly believed it was false. Both Snowden and Greenwald have choosen to honour the truth above their own safety and security. Both of them are also acutely aware of the fact that standing shoulder-to-shoulder with Dotcom reflects poorly on their own integrity. Maybe the USG leaked this email as a 'fal…

"shill"? That implies he's working for anyone but himself. "Colourful racing identity" is the usual Australian euphemism, I'm sure there's a New Zealand equivalent.

Really, the amazing thing the US did with MegaUpload was to make Kim Dotcom look like a hero by comparison ...

Re: LIVE NOW: Glenn Greenwald, Assange, and Kim Dot Com in NZ

#94

Post by tankenmate »

vorg wrote: post #66
bitserf wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fellow NZ citizen. Could not agree more. I hope we will have more engagement of the citizenry this election.

It would also be good to have more engagement of non-citizen New Zealanders this election also! For non-Kiwis... New Zealand is one of the very few countries in the world where non-citizens are allowed to vote in national elections. Permanent residents who have lived in NZ for only 1 year can register to vote, though they don't have to. They're not allowed to become citizens until they've lived in NZ for 5 years howe…

Actually Australians don't have to vote, they are required by law however to attend a polling station on polling day or have registered for a postal vote and returned the postal vote envelope. The actual vote papers can be blank, or indeed you can write in if you want; even for people who aren't on the official ticket (i.e. you can legally vote for Mickey Mouse). If a write in gets enough votes they are free to accept the position. In Australia you are also required by law to be on the electoral roll if you are eligible. In short in Australia suffrage is universal (for citizens who are of majority age; currently 18) and mandatory.

Re: LIVE NOW: Glenn Greenwald, Assange, and Kim Dot Com in NZ

#95

Post by thaumaturgy »

jacquesm wrote: post #89
thaumaturgy wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm having trouble understanding how you're able to give Assange and Dotcom different treatments. I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I'm genuinely puzzled. You're having a similar argument with idlewords, but in defense of Assange; your comment upthread acknowledges that Assange has "flaws" and "something to answer for in his personal life", but when it comes to Dotcom, it sounds like you've got a much stronger neg…

To me the difference is very simple: KDC has shown a structural disregard for the law and his victims to line his own pockets, this is not a one-time affair or something that you could claim is a mistake, an accident or something done half drunk, and he's been convicted of those crimes. It is to me beyond any doubt that he's a common criminal, he's merely found a nice little gray area in which he can operate using th…

Alright, fair 'nuff.

Re: LIVE NOW: Glenn Greenwald, Assange, and Kim Dot Com in NZ

#96

Post by spindritf »

jacquesm wrote: post #64
caractacus wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A main question for me is how dotcom got hold of his email. There is no mention that it came from Snowden's leaks or similar, though it appears that this is what Dotcom is wanted everyone to believe: host an event highlighting mass surveilliance of NZ citizens, publicise an email hours beforehand, hope everyone conflates the issues and thinks that the legitimacy that Greenwald and Snowden lend to the surveillance eve…

The first rule of email: if you do something incriminating, don't use email. Oliver North and many many others after him have shown that people are simply stupid. From small time crooks to big time politicians and a whole spectrum of stupid people in between the 'incriminating email' seems to be a staple element in the arsenal of prosecutions the world over. I don't see why CEO's of major corporations should be exemp…

The first rule of email: if you do something incriminating, don't use email.

IRS seem to be holding up fine. You just need enough chutzpah to go all in: we don't have the emails, what you're gonna do?

Which is what seems to be happening. Key says he has no recollection of such a conversation

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objecti...

Re: LIVE NOW: Glenn Greenwald, Assange, and Kim Dot Com in NZ

#97

Post by tim333 »

tomp wrote: post #91
junto wrote: post #57

While I find Dotcom to be a epitome of a shill, I doubt Greenwald or Snowden would back this particular claim if they truly believed it was false. Both Snowden and Greenwald have choosen to honour the truth above their own safety and security. Both of them are also acutely aware of the fact that standing shoulder-to-shoulder with Dotcom reflects poorly on their own integrity. Maybe the USG leaked this email as a 'fal…

> While I find Dotcom to be a epitome of a shill, I doubt Greenwald or Snowden would back this particular claim if they truly believed it was false. Can I just ask you, what's the claim? I cannot watch the video at this time (I'm at work)...

I think this stuff:

- The Kim Dotcom "big reveal" is out - and has almost immediately been dismissed as a fake.

- The "reveal" is an email which purports to show Prime Minister John Key involved in a plan to get the internet entrepreneur into New Zealand so he could be extradited to the United States.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objecti...

Re: LIVE NOW: Glenn Greenwald, Assange, and Kim Dot Com in NZ

#98

Post by jacquesm »

spindritf wrote: post #96
jacquesm wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first rule of email: if you do something incriminating, don't use email. Oliver North and many many others after him have shown that people are simply stupid. From small time crooks to big time politicians and a whole spectrum of stupid people in between the 'incriminating email' seems to be a staple element in the arsenal of prosecutions the world over. I don't see why CEO's of major corporations should be exemp…

The first rule of email: if you do something incriminating, don't use email. IRS seem to be holding up fine. You just need enough chutzpah to go all in: we don't have the emails, what you're gonna do? Which is what seems to be happening. Key says he has no recollection of such a conversation http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objecti...

Nixon said he wasn't a crook.

Time will tell, the problem with email is that you can't really shred it and that it likely has passed through some points in between where at least the headers got archived.

What I'm curious about:

- if the email is not fake, how did GG ascertain that it isn't

- if it isn't fake how did KDC get hold of it

- if it isn't fake does Key really believe that he'll get away with doubling down?

- if it is fake how did GG miss that? (it will damage his rep badly)

- could it be a case of misinformation?

- if it is a misinformation attempt, who is the target?

This is going to end badly for at least one party.

The email text seems just too juicy to me, but stranger things have happened and turned out to be true. Not releasing the email+headers is a strange move. That would make it harder to deny it if it is real, at the same time it might allow for removal of remaining traces of evidence.

Tricky!

Re: LIVE NOW: Glenn Greenwald, Assange, and Kim Dot Com in NZ

#99

Post by roel_v »

etiam wrote: post #88
tsileo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me too, a few seconds after playing, it reloaded itself.

Thanks for the information. This is uncomfortably close to the way I imagine a glitch from something like a FOXACID exploit might look, and youtube is a known exploitable service. Maybe I need to get someone more skilled than myself have a close look at this machine. Knowledgeable people here, would you please comment if there's reason to rule out concerns about this.

No "knowledgeable people" can rule out anything. You must consider any machine that is connected to any network compromised, if you have anything "sensitive" on there. You have to define for yourself what "sensitive" means.

(not even being facetious here)

Re: LIVE NOW: Glenn Greenwald, Assange, and Kim Dot Com in NZ

#100

Post by jacquesm »

caractacus wrote: post #63
junto wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that is true, do you imagine that Greewald and Snowden are stupid enough not to validate their sources? They own integrity is on the line here, and Greenwald in particular is trading on that integrity, and the entire Firstlook.org integrity is riding with him. Either the USD has sold him a complete dummy and Firstlook is dead in the water, or the claim is true.

Greenwald didn't mention this supposed email once. He talked about the mass surveillance of NZ citizens only, evidence for which is pretty substantial. That is something he would have validated. No one, as far as I can tell, has said that Dotcom's email came from Snowden or Greenwald or anyone connected to them.

The problem is one of juxtaposition. Imagine standing next to Al Capone when he's showing a letter from a congressman implicating a whole industry. You might not have anything to do with the subsequent fall-out, especially if the thing turns out to be a falsification. But it will still tarnish your reputation. The only way it will not is if it turns out that it is all true. And all that would not even require you to open your mouth.
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