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Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

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Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#91
post #32
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both mistrust of foreign companies and desire to suppress dissent could be reasons this law is being enacted. It doesn't have to be one or the other. And, there could even be a third element. Economic protectionism and "keep the money here". Or even a forth element. The lawmakers cousin owns a data center in Moscow:)

"Keep the money here"? That's for filthy peasants, noblemen of Russian bureaucracy hold their savings overseas.

They may STORE the money overseas...

But they have to get the money from somewhere don't they?

That somewhere is generally "fixed" Russian markets.

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#92
post #89
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even if the majority wants to suppress minority dissent (or do worse things to minorities), it's not the right thing to do. Let me follow your definition, say, in the case of Ancient Rome. There is a minority of masters and a majority of slaves. Minority of masters has a dissent (from the slave's point of view, of course) that slaves should stay slaves. So, according to you, it is wrong for them to fight for their…

No, I should have worded it more carefully: Majority opinion isn't necessarily ethical, though it can be. They're independent concepts.

This statement makes sense for some specific ethic systems.

For instance, in almost all modern states there are ideas, which are shared by some majorities and considered unethical in Christian ethic system.

But bad_user seems to imply ethic system which is based on the aggregate citizens vision. With such ethic system opinions of majorities are ethical by tautology.

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#93
What would one expect from "Bydlostan". Russia has been destroyed in 1917, USSR in 1991.)

Pelevin (the best modern Russian writer) came up with another more appropriate name - "Patsaneriya".

This "protection" of personal data is the same as "protection" of Russian-speaking in Crymea - just an excuse for a grab.

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#94
post #30
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's certainly not that Putin needs to suppress dissent from his own people. It's a very small minority in Russia that would like Putin removed. Now, if we're talking about the west investing x billion in "democratic institutions"(Ukraine, anyone?), it makes some sense for Russia to isolate itself. Obviously, it's easy to paint Russia as evil, but the cold war is over, buddy.

That's hilarious. People in Russia support Putin exactly because there are virtually no free mass media. This is one of the latest steps to block access to all media channels that may oppose Russian cleptocratic government.

I think you're painting everything black and white here. I'm Russian, I have no TV at home, I get all my news from reddit and twitter, and I still support Putin, though I don't like him a lot. You're right about mass media, but that doesn't mean you can't have sources of information you like. Russia is not North Korea.

Putin brought quality of life in Russia to a pretty nice level, and he keeps doing it, and a lot of people like that. And I see no point in becoming involved in protest movement and revolution rage. We all saw what happened to our neighbour, we need evolution, not revolution.

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not democracy unless quite a few conditions are met. Elections alone aren't satisfactory. Unless there is free speech, (completely) universal suffrage and honest authorities, there can't be a democracy. Russia restricts free speech and universal suffrage through relatively "efficient" means, compared with China. Putin ensures his power with a lot less effort than the CCP. Also "honesty" in Russian authorities is…

By your requirements for democracy, there is not a single democratic country on Earth. And Russia restricts free speech better than China? Although I wouldn't argue Russia is a bastion of free speech, I do talk with my Russian friends over Facebook, Skype, email, etc, make jokes about and criticize their (and our) governments just fine without any problems so far. I cannot say the same of my Chinese colleagues, which…

Fwiw, Freedom House puts China as slightly less free than Russia, but both are in pretty good shape. (Freedom House is highly regarded by political scientists for this sort of thing.)

http://www.freedomhouse.org/sites/default/files/Sub%20Catego...

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#96
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

don't always believe what you read here, there are a lot of Russians who want to relive the glory days, real or perceived. Just because we in the West don't like him doesn't mean much to them, if anything it might bolster his image there. plus, considering what our President(s) do/done where do we have room to brag/gloat? I cannot find those news articles where Putin is using drones to kill his citizens abroad.

This is spot on. Russians had a ton of structure for ~70 years, then one day all of that disappeared. Outside the big cities, things did kind of go to shit for a long time, with many youth addicted to drugs or simply jobless and desperate. This led to a rise in extreme nationalism among the youth, who pine for the "good old days" when Russia was a global superpower. You know those racist, alcoholic rednecks in Alabam…

Just to make it clear, I don't disagree with your first two paragraphs regarding nationalism and alcoholism, but your apologetic attitude for the US is somewhat worrying.

Except for Ukraine, which is a controversial subject, when was the last time Russia directly threatened a sovereign nation and overthrew their governments?

Now, how about the US in the last 14 years - Iraq, Afghanistan, Venezuela, Haiti, Gaza Strip, Somalia, Iran, Lybia and Syria. Does that not come off as "crazy" to you?

EDIT: oops, sorry. Forgot Yemen and Pakistan, against whom there is no official declaration of war either.

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#97
post #91
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Keep the money here"? That's for filthy peasants, noblemen of Russian bureaucracy hold their savings overseas.

They may STORE the money overseas... But they have to get the money from somewhere don't they? That somewhere is generally "fixed" Russian markets.

Sure, I don't disagree with that.

It is absolutely surreal how much funds were embezzled through the Olympics, for one example.

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-sochi-is-by-far-the-most-...

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#98
post #3

It sounds evil but balkanisation of the Internet is a natural result of the erosion of trust in corporations and other stewards of this medium. The NSA/GCHQ scandal only pushed it a little further. We all know that any great medium starts out as a bastion of understanding, sharing and common good until a bunch of trolls show up to ruin it all (ahem, reddit, ycombinator, digg, etc). Until that moment we enjoy all the…

balkanisation of the Internet is a natural result of the erosion of trust in corporations and other stewards of this medium Not even close. This is another regime looking to suppress dissent, just like China has been doing all along. They don't trust their own citizens, not "corporations and other stewards of this medium." You're buying a flimsy excuse for cracking down on free speech. Their problem has never been th…

>Not even close. This is another regime looking to suppress dissent, just like China has been doing all along. They don't trust their own citizens, not "corporations and other stewards of this medium." You're buying a flimsy excuse for cracking down on free speech.

Russia, as a sovereign state has the right to make its own mind, including for what it considers dissidents. It's not the place of some foreigners to judge that. Especially since it's a democracy, and people voted for their government, however some foreigners might or might not like it.

Even if you disagree with their current regime, it's the regime the Russian people voted for, and they can also change it in the future. And regardless if it is a good or a bad government, there is really no excuse for a sovereign country to give access to its citizens data to an external power, especially one which treats foreign information like intelligence data and doesn't care at all about their privacy.

Better to be abused by your own government, the one you voted for, even if it's bad and abusive, than by some regime outside your borders.

If Americans had their Facebook/Google/etc data in a third country and those countries services treated them as US services do, they would be screaming bloody murder.

>Their problem has never been that some company cooperates with the US. It has always been that multinationals couldn't be easily strong-armed into cooperating with the local authorities.

And why shouldn't they be strong-armed into cooperating with the local authorities? It's their country, their rules, not something for multinationals to piss all over.

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#99
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

balkanisation of the Internet is a natural result of the erosion of trust in corporations and other stewards of this medium Not even close. This is another regime looking to suppress dissent, just like China has been doing all along. They don't trust their own citizens, not "corporations and other stewards of this medium." You're buying a flimsy excuse for cracking down on free speech. Their problem has never been th…

Russia is obviously preparing for a war. They are trying to build and control their own services for everything (finance, e-commerce, even CPU manufacturing etc.) so that the country doesn't collapse once it is cut off from the West, the weakness China doesn't have. It sucks for all the people that want to enjoy freedom there.

>It sucks for all the people that want to enjoy freedom there.

Or you know, it's beneficial for all the people that want to enjoy freedom there, since freedom is not "the freedom to have your data on a server on Mountain View" but to live in a free, sovereign country.

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#100
post #94
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's hilarious. People in Russia support Putin exactly because there are virtually no free mass media. This is one of the latest steps to block access to all media channels that may oppose Russian cleptocratic government.

I think you're painting everything black and white here. I'm Russian, I have no TV at home, I get all my news from reddit and twitter, and I still support Putin, though I don't like him a lot. You're right about mass media, but that doesn't mean you can't have sources of information you like. Russia is not North Korea. Putin brought quality of life in Russia to a pretty nice level, and he keeps doing it, and a lot of…

Oil brought quality of life in Russia to a pretty nice level, despite Putin corrupt government, not because of him.

Most people conform to a majority opinion. Its dangerous to be publicly against Putin and new russian militarism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_of_silence

And right, you all "saw" what happened to Ukraine, it's not that Russia annexed Crimea and supports separatists in the east, nope.

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