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Ted Kennedy has died

nytimes.com

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Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#91

Post by andreyf »

TomOfTTB wrote: post #72
unalone wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps those of us that like Ted Kennedy weren't the ones bashing Michael Jackson? I'm inclined to forgive people their many, many errors. I see no harm in looking at a man's accomplishments and ignoring his failures. Michael Jackson was a man who changed the entertainment world. Ted Kennedy spent decades fighting for his causes without rest. Each did unpleasant things, but those things don't eliminate the good each…

I do see a problem in ignoring a fault when that fault is "killed someone and received no punishment for it". It's an injustice to the victim to do anything else. If Justice is not an ideal you hold than you wouldn't agree with me on that.

It's an injustice to the victim to do anything else.

Justice is not the same as revenge, and often quite the opposite. In this particular case, especially in hindsight, I find it hard to imagine a heavy-handed prosecution and jail time having been a good idea.

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#92

Post by andreyf »

unalone wrote: post #74
danielrhodes wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what the voting buttons next to the story are for. If you discuss the article itself, then you should add value to the discussion. Complaining about the presence of the story itself when the community obviously voted it up to the top is not adding value, it's only adding negativity.

I would agree if there was a downvote option, so that people who don't like a story could have a say. As it is, a vocal-and-irritating minority can push stories to the top without anybody else being able to stop it. (I don't refer to this story when I say that, mind you. We all have our pet peeves.)

A clever solution would be a downvote button that behaves the same as the "flag" link ;)

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#93

Post by andreyf »

TomOfTTB wrote: post #23
idlewords wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is Ted Kennedy's lesson for the world? From my perspective, the guy was a career politician and part of an unpleasant dynastic trend in American government. How would the world be different had Kennedy not lived?

Especially this one. I'm hesitant to comment on this because this article really doesn't belong here. But the fact remains Ted Kennedy left a woman for dead after driving his car into a body of water. He didn't contact the authorities when it happened, he instead went back to his hotel. When at his hotel (and I take this quote from the Wikipedia entry) he... "According to his own testimony, Kennedy swam across the 50…

"Although my doctors informed me that I suffered a cerebral concussion, as well as shock, I do not seek to escape responsibility for my actions by placing the blame either on the physical and emotional trauma brought on by the accident, or on anyone else. I regard as indefensible the fact that I did not report the accident to the police immediately." -Ted Kennedy

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#94

Post by jhancock »

blasdel wrote: post #66
larryfreeman wrote: post #10

He did the seeming impossible: he lived up to the reputation of his brothers as their equal. An amazing senator. A very great loss.

While Ted was a pretty cool guy, eh garnered appropriations and doesn't afraid of anything , I don't think anyone could really live up to his brothers. John was an order of magnitude greater, and Bobby was at least an order of magnitude greater than that! Bobby was everything Obama aspires to be and more. His assassination was probably the worst event of '68 -- and a fuckton of awful shit happened that year: the crus…

I was just thinking of those events this past week as I see how the media is assisting corporate/industry status quo to fight health care reform. Regardless of what you think of the details of this current legislation (I'm not a fan of some details myself), a key thing, and HN appropriate, to understand is this is the battle ground for change of any sort, not just health care. Industry will fight these sweeping changes since if they win this battle, they feel the momentum for other change may be curtailed.

Media doesn't work for the viewer/reader, they work for the advertiser. This fundamental is mostly the same since 1968. A key difference between 1968 and 2009 is the level of refinement and completeness of this control.

Is this comment HN appropriate? Most startups talk about being disruptive. That's not so hard to do if your building a web-widget. But that's hardly being disruptive. You want to do something BIG? Be prepared for lots of opposition from industry status quo.

You want to be disruptive like John or Bobby Kennedy or MLK Jr.? You have to be prepared to die to be that kind of Hacker.

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#95

Post by aquateen »

blasdel wrote: post #66
larryfreeman wrote: post #10

He did the seeming impossible: he lived up to the reputation of his brothers as their equal. An amazing senator. A very great loss.

While Ted was a pretty cool guy, eh garnered appropriations and doesn't afraid of anything , I don't think anyone could really live up to his brothers. John was an order of magnitude greater, and Bobby was at least an order of magnitude greater than that! Bobby was everything Obama aspires to be and more. His assassination was probably the worst event of '68 -- and a fuckton of awful shit happened that year: the crus…

How are you quantifying greatness? Everyone on this site loves to say "order of magnitude."

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#96

Post by fauigerzigerk »

rms wrote: post #56
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #27

So you're posting this here just in case hackers don't read newspapers?

Please don't post "not Hacker News" comments. It makes for extremely uninteresting reading. Now the first thing anyone sees when they click on the comments for this story is this boring thread. http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

In that case why don't you just flag (or rather [dead]) my post instead of commenting on it and hence contributing to this boring thread?

[edit] I don't like the flag feature because it prevents people from disagreeing with me, maybe explaining why they think the article is interesting.

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#97

Post by fauigerzigerk »

akd wrote: post #58
stevoski wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right on. Those of us outside the states just don't care that one of your politicians died - unless he was a competent computer expert. I come here for "Hacker News", not political death notices. Shall I post here when a long-serving New Zealand politician dies?

Yes, you should. The voting buttons will determine the fate of the story.

Voting behaviour may depend on what people have to say about the article.

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#98

Post by fauigerzigerk »

JacobAldridge wrote: post #69
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #27

So you're posting this here just in case hackers don't read newspapers?

Firstly, I think this has a place here, and I think the votes reflect that (I'd also be happy if it were submitted and received no votes - that's the purpose of the site). I'd be interested in any discussion about the impact this may have on more relevant areas of ours lives - areas that unite us under the HN brand, that probably won't be discussed in newspapers. How might this impact the Health Care debate, with the…

I'm not saying politics has no place here. That's why I didn't want to flag the article. But the linked to article is plain headline news, not the kind of interesting debate you describe.

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#99

Post by byrneseyeview »

fretlessjazz wrote: post #3

To comprehend the breadth of this man's persona, ask yourself "what do I do each day to help other people?" The man never stopped.

I avoid driving them home while drunk and then abandoning them underwater. I also try not to pat myself on the back for using my family connections to get into a position where I can spend other people's money on my pet projects.

So far, the New York Times hasn't said anything nice about me. On the other hand, I can sleep at night.

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#100

Post by encoderer »

idlewords wrote: post #38
jsares wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprisingly from Digg: o The Civil Rights Act of 1964 o The Voting Rights Act of 1965 o The COBRA Act of 1985 (ever lost a job and still managed to keep your health insurance for 18 months?) o The Americans with Disabilities Act in 1990 o The Family and Medical Leave Act in 1993 o Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996

The Civil Rights act and Voting Rights act aren't something you can credit Kennedy with - he was a junior senator. That leaves four pieces of major legislation (or six, if we throw in a couple of increases in minimum wage) in a fifty year career. This seems out of proportion to the hagiography; I would be curious to know how we would be covering this story if his name weren't Kennedy.

But the Civil Rights act took every vote, even if he didn't personally craft the bill. He was a vote for the bill, and more, he was a vote for cloture. And that's no small thing.. At that time, cloture hadn't been achieved in 40 years.

And even more, it very nearly killed him. The plane crash on the way out of DC after staying late to vote on the bill left him in a hospital bed for months.

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