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Ted Kennedy has died

nytimes.com

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Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#31

Post by spking »

akd wrote: post #24
spking wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I'm so sick of politician worshipping by the left and the right. Did Ted Kennedy ever have a real (i.e. private sector) job in his entire life? No. He was a drunken womanizer who spent other people's money. Good riddance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kennedy

I'm as sick of politician hatred by the peanut gallery. Think back 250 years in this country's history, when blacks were slaves, non-landowners couldn't vote, and women weren't sent to school. The difference between that world and today's world is due to the efforts of politicians and activists. Do you think that Johnson's Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act were not "real" accomplishments?

Interesting that you went straight for the "peanut gallery" categorization because my opinion happens to differ from yours. I paid just over $38,000 in Federal, state and local taxes last year. I simply don't like people (like Ted Kennedy) who have never worked an honest job in their entire lives and have contributed to bankrupting this country. The real heroes are not politicians who run up a massive credit card bill in our collective names. The true heroes are entrepreneurs who innovate, produce and create value. Politicians produce nothing. They simply take from the productive sectors of society and create huge distortions in the marketplace. Obviously, there have been some necessary and admirable laws passed in the brief history of this country, but they are the exception and not the rule.

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#32

Post by idlewords »

akd wrote: post #22
idlewords wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is Ted Kennedy's lesson for the world? From my perspective, the guy was a career politician and part of an unpleasant dynastic trend in American government. How would the world be different had Kennedy not lived?

For 50 years Ted Kennedy has been the US government's leading defender of the poor. If he hasn't impacted your life, you probably aren't poor.

He was a remarkably ineffective leading defender of the poor, then. Compare income inequality at the start of his political career with income inequality now.

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#33

Post by fretlessjazz »

patio11 wrote: post #26
fretlessjazz wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At 10,000 swimming pools at once?

The comment was probably in reference to the incident at Chappaquiddick rather than a suggestion that one would be more effective at saving lives as a lifeguard than as a Senator wielding enormous influence. In the version of events most favorable to Kennedy, he suffered a tragic lapse in judgment (failing to summon aid) which compounded the results of an unfortunate auto accident, and a young woman drowned as a resu…

Thanks for your clarification and insight:)

Being born in 1981, I'll write my previous comment off to generational ignorance.

I appreciate your thorough and thoughtful response.

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#34

Post by splat »

akd wrote: post #24
spking wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I'm so sick of politician worshipping by the left and the right. Did Ted Kennedy ever have a real (i.e. private sector) job in his entire life? No. He was a drunken womanizer who spent other people's money. Good riddance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kennedy

I'm as sick of politician hatred by the peanut gallery. Think back 250 years in this country's history, when blacks were slaves, non-landowners couldn't vote, and women weren't sent to school. The difference between that world and today's world is due to the efforts of politicians and activists. Do you think that Johnson's Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act were not "real" accomplishments?

Yes, let's think back to these ills you mentioned.... Who put them in place? Oh yes, it was politicians. I'm glad they eventually corrected their mistakes, but I won't deify them simply because they did so.

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#35

Post by dangrover »

I was in Mass General Hospital about a year ago on the exact day that Kennedy was. Strangely enough, I found out I had brain cancer too that night. Luckily, mine was not as serious as his. I feel fortunate.

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#36

Post by akd »

idlewords wrote: post #32
akd wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For 50 years Ted Kennedy has been the US government's leading defender of the poor. If he hasn't impacted your life, you probably aren't poor.

He was a remarkably ineffective leading defender of the poor, then. Compare income inequality at the start of his political career with income inequality now.

Income inequality is the wrong metric - the right metric is real income for the bottom 10% of America in 1950 vs. today. Of course there are many factors at work, but rising income inequality isn't bad if it's bringing everyone up.

Also keep in mind that today's healthcare debate is one that he has been fighting for 50 years (along with many others), and that whatever does happen, whenever it happens, will have more of his fingerprint on it than Obama's.

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#37

Post by akd »

spking wrote: post #31
akd wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm as sick of politician hatred by the peanut gallery. Think back 250 years in this country's history, when blacks were slaves, non-landowners couldn't vote, and women weren't sent to school. The difference between that world and today's world is due to the efforts of politicians and activists. Do you think that Johnson's Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act were not "real" accomplishments?

Interesting that you went straight for the "peanut gallery" categorization because my opinion happens to differ from yours. I paid just over $38,000 in Federal, state and local taxes last year. I simply don't like people (like Ted Kennedy) who have never worked an honest job in their entire lives and have contributed to bankrupting this country. The real heroes are not politicians who run up a massive credit card bil…

Useless companies which simply take from the productive sectors of the economy are also the rule, with the few amazing companies being the exception. You can't have a new Google or Voting Rights Act every week.

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#38

Post by idlewords »

jsares wrote: post #29
idlewords wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is Ted Kennedy's lesson for the world? From my perspective, the guy was a career politician and part of an unpleasant dynastic trend in American government. How would the world be different had Kennedy not lived?

Surprisingly from Digg: o The Civil Rights Act of 1964 o The Voting Rights Act of 1965 o The COBRA Act of 1985 (ever lost a job and still managed to keep your health insurance for 18 months?) o The Americans with Disabilities Act in 1990 o The Family and Medical Leave Act in 1993 o Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996

The Civil Rights act and Voting Rights act aren't something you can credit Kennedy with - he was a junior senator.

That leaves four pieces of major legislation (or six, if we throw in a couple of increases in minimum wage) in a fifty year career. This seems out of proportion to the hagiography; I would be curious to know how we would be covering this story if his name weren't Kennedy.

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#39

Post by spking »

akd wrote: post #37
spking wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that you went straight for the "peanut gallery" categorization because my opinion happens to differ from yours. I paid just over $38,000 in Federal, state and local taxes last year. I simply don't like people (like Ted Kennedy) who have never worked an honest job in their entire lives and have contributed to bankrupting this country. The real heroes are not politicians who run up a massive credit card bil…

Useless companies which simply take from the productive sectors of the economy are also the rule, with the few amazing companies being the exception. You can't have a new Google or Voting Rights Act every week.

The difference here is that any exchange with a useless company is on a voluntary basis, whereas any exchange with the government is completely compulsory. If I don't give Useless Company X my money, they go out of business for not adding enough value. If I don't give my money to the government, they garnish my wages, put liens on my house and put me in prison, and continue to run inefficiently whilst piling up massive debt in my name. See the difference?

Re: Ted Kennedy has died

#40

Post by idlewords »

akd wrote: post #36
idlewords wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was a remarkably ineffective leading defender of the poor, then. Compare income inequality at the start of his political career with income inequality now.

Income inequality is the wrong metric - the right metric is real income for the bottom 10% of America in 1950 vs. today. Of course there are many factors at work, but rising income inequality isn't bad if it's bringing everyone up. Also keep in mind that today's healthcare debate is one that he has been fighting for 50 years (along with many others), and that whatever does happen, whenever it happens, will have more…

The decades after 1950 were times of huge growth in real income across the developed world for reasons that didn't have much to do with Senator Kennedy.

I'm evaluating his accomplishments with a bias to what he did in his later career, when he was presumably at the peak of his influence. And there the answer seems to be 'was skillfully co-opted by the Bush administration'.

I do agree that he was tireless in pushing health policy. I just don't think he was effective - but maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised by what comes out of the health reform meat grinder in a few months.

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