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Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

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Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#91

Post by chc »

baddox wrote: post #45
dandrews wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem is, Crake, we're doing something wrong . Three years I went to Conj, and the first year there were -zero- women attendees out of 300. Second year it was -three- attendees out of 300. Third year it was eight or nine. I don't know what Lynn and company managed to attract last year. The people attending Conj are bright, well-spoken, polite. I didn't meet a jerk in three years, a crowd I was proud to be seen with…

> Problem is, Crake, we're doing something wrong . And perhaps the support of segregationist policies is the thing we're doing wrong.

Enabling people in a minority group to associate with one another while still not excluding them from anything is not segregationist; it's just considerate.

However, you have a very testable hypothesis here with the idea that these policies are the source of the inequality. And much like "Wet ground makes it rain," the hypothesis is easily disproven by considering the order that the correlated things happened in. The ground gets wet after it rains, and these events started being organized in response to the conditions you're suggesting they may have caused.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#92

Post by gphilip »

oh_sigh wrote: post #81
danilocampos wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't care about women in tech. I've noticed. When you collect a few more life experiences, perhaps get a decade of career under your belt, you'll learn how toxic it is when monocultures form. You'll learn about the blind spots. The exclusion. The lack of productive conflict from varying ideas. And perhaps at that point you'll learn why "caring about people in tech" means caring that no people feel actively exclu…

> When you collect a few more life experiences, perhaps get a decade of career under your belt, you'll learn how toxic it is when monocultures form. Perhaps when you collect a few more life experiences, you will realize that saying "When you grow up/stop being immature/a child/etc you'll share my opinion on X, Y, and Z" isn't providing any support for your positions, and even if you was, it is not an effective argume…

> saying "When you grow up/stop being immature/a child/etc you'll share my opinion on X, Y, and Z" isn't providing any support for your positions, and even if you was, it is not an effective argument either.

To me that looks more like a literary construct (intended to make the argument more "beautiful", if that is the right word) rather than a logical construct. I read the "meaning" of their post as: "After I got some experience/a decade of career under my belt, I learnt how toxic ...". Except phrased in a more "literary" way.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#93

Post by chc »

Crake wrote: post #17
jonalmeida wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true, I didn't click the link because I feared it was about getting more female founders in development. After reading namenotrequired's comment I clicked.

Yeah, same. :/ Funny, isn't? All the Adria Richards of the world claiming to want to increase the exposure of women in tech are actively discouraging exactly that.

You don't have to support things like this, but have you ever considered not constantly taking pot-shots at efforts to correct a really blatant inequality like this?

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#95

Post by danilocampos »

dovel wrote: post #86
GhotiFish wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's perhaps too harsh. You hear from people who are physically handicapped that the thing they hate most is the contrast in treatment. They want to be treated normally. A different person in a different perspective gets treated differently because they are viewed as different. A common complaint. Is he being empathetic or indifferent? I dunno, but it's hard not to say to yourself "Women are being treated different…

Hi there. I thought I would reply to your post in it's entirety, as a 'handicapped' person and as a person aware of why events like this are good, and not bad. 1) Check the origins of the term handicap - it is derogatory. I'm sure some people will call this OTT or political correctness but whatever. The term 'impairment' is a good choice, mobility impairment, physical impairment. To those reading this who think it is…

I appreciate the thoroughness of your response and would like to reiterate my apology[1] above. Engaging on the "handicap" angle as I did was insensitive and unnecessary. As you're someone with lived experience in that realm, I hate to have validated terminology that could be hurtful to you.

A fantastic explanation and I appreciate your measured tone against my own frustration.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7327360

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#96

Post by DenisM »

danilocampos wrote: post #50
Crake wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually don't bother with links to things that are phrased in such a way as to suggest support of segregationist policies. I don't care about women in tech. I care about people in tech.

> I don't care about women in tech. I've noticed. When you collect a few more life experiences, perhaps get a decade of career under your belt, you'll learn how toxic it is when monocultures form. You'll learn about the blind spots. The exclusion. The lack of productive conflict from varying ideas. And perhaps at that point you'll learn why "caring about people in tech" means caring that no people feel actively exclu…

Kindly stop attacking the personality of your opponent, and focus on the point they are making. Disagreement is no excuse for being rude.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#97

Post by maxerickson »

danilocampos wrote: post #50
Crake wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually don't bother with links to things that are phrased in such a way as to suggest support of segregationist policies. I don't care about women in tech. I care about people in tech.

> I don't care about women in tech. I've noticed. When you collect a few more life experiences, perhaps get a decade of career under your belt, you'll learn how toxic it is when monocultures form. You'll learn about the blind spots. The exclusion. The lack of productive conflict from varying ideas. And perhaps at that point you'll learn why "caring about people in tech" means caring that no people feel actively exclu…

Do you think this tone and style of lecture is a good way to get people to hear the things you want them to hear?

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#99

Post by chc »

onmydesk wrote: post #57
_xo_ wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even assuming you are correct about this - CS is not one of these areas. If you go back a few decades, programming was a much more even leveled field. In the 80s, approximately 50% of all programmers were female. (For numbers see e.g. http://blog.fogcreek.com/girls-go-geek-again/ )

Why is 50% correct? Why was that right and later lower values wrong? What is the rationale?

It's not that the numbers are "right" or "wrong." It's that the data shows there is nothing inherent about computer science that excludes women. So if women are not interested these days, there is something about the current state of affairs that is creating the friction. What we are doing here is rejecting the hypothesis "Women are simply, as a matter of nature, disinclined to go into computer science."

"Right" and "wrong" are judgment calls, though most people do feel that keeping women out of a field with no natural barriers to them is wrong. Regardless of your personal values, the historical data shows that whatever barriers exist are not natural.

Re: Y Combinator Female Founders Conference LiveStream

#100

Post by dovel »

danilocampos wrote: post #95
dovel wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi there. I thought I would reply to your post in it's entirety, as a 'handicapped' person and as a person aware of why events like this are good, and not bad. 1) Check the origins of the term handicap - it is derogatory. I'm sure some people will call this OTT or political correctness but whatever. The term 'impairment' is a good choice, mobility impairment, physical impairment. To those reading this who think it is…

I appreciate the thoroughness of your response and would like to reiterate my apology[1] above. Engaging on the "handicap" angle as I did was insensitive and unnecessary. As you're someone with lived experience in that realm, I hate to have validated terminology that could be hurtful to you. A fantastic explanation and I appreciate your measured tone against my own frustration. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?i…

It is absolutely fine! Seriously. Thank you for responding. I do not feel negatively toward you. It is not an individual problem. It is structural, which is why it should be combated as social groups (women, disabled, ethnic minorities).
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