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N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

nytimes.com

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Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#91

Post by jahewson »

flexie wrote: post #28
fidotron wrote: post #7

The best bit here is right in the first paragraph: "and a European Union official involved in antitrust battles with American technology businesses." Spying on foreign governments because you think they might present a threat to you in terms of war/foreign policy is generally defensible (although many on here would disagree with that), while using the apparatus of the state to support select private enterprise throug…

In the last 20 years several American tech companies have grown huge with very little challenge from European antitrust or tax authorities. Google, Facebook, LinkedIn, Apple, Amazon, Intel, Microsoft... Rules regarding abuse of dominant position could have been applied much stricter. Some of these companies have 90-something percent market share on several of the geographic and product markets they operate in. But no…

> The iphone costs more or less the same all over Europe as does the music and movies on it.

It's supposed to, the European single market laws require that it costs the same in each country.

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#92

Post by AsymetricCom »

abalashov wrote: post #26
Zigurd wrote: post #14

There are some curious things about the response to these revelations: 1. Zero "friendly" nations have gone beyond carping. If the NSA still thinks they can put the toothpaste back in the tube it's because nobody who matters has told them otherwise, much less acted on such a declaration. 2. Even more surprising is that zero small nations who are far down the "Eyes" hierarchy, have concluded they can't win, so they sh…

Given the inherently interconnected and international character of the Internet, as well as the fact that many of its key network peering and exchange points are in countries fairly high on the "Eyes" hierarchy, I would be deeply sceptical of the viability of any effort to become "the Switzerland of data". So, you build a data centre in a "Switzerland of data" and throw something like national government-level resour…

Apparently PGP was scary enough for NSA to sabotage any commercialization of capable solutions. Internet security isn't as far away as you might think.

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#93

Post by jbooth »

bananacurve wrote: post #78
vidarh wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a rather funny comment to make in response to speculation (that I do think sound a bit far fetched) that the NSA has used its influence to reduce the amount of EU anti-trust action, supported by pointing out how easy near-monopolist US companies have had it in Europe.

So you think America made the EU have foolish regulation?

Not everything is about your libertarian hobby horse. California and NYC are 2 of the "least economically free" areas of the US. Shouldn't they be getting outcompeted by Idaho or something? Or maybe the world exists on more than one axis.

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#94

Post by bananacurve »

jbooth wrote: post #93
bananacurve wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you think America made the EU have foolish regulation?

Not everything is about your libertarian hobby horse. California and NYC are 2 of the "least economically free" areas of the US. Shouldn't they be getting outcompeted by Idaho or something? Or maybe the world exists on more than one axis.

NY and CA may be the least free but they are a dream compared to europe.

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#95

Post by foobarqux »

wil421 wrote: post #50
mladenkovacevic wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how you peg the Chinese industrial spying as very clear-cut and obviously malevolent, but grasp at straws to justify the Pertobas spying as somehow motivated by good-guy American trying to bust some organized crime ring.

Show me the slides I want to see the evidence myself. All I am seeing now is the words of various reporters. I am trying to grasp at something that would justify it. Its beyond belief that they are actually doing this. Who's the good guys in this world or are the "people" the only good guys left?

There are no good-guy nation states. It's only propaganda that has led you to believe otherwise.

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#96

Post by tobltobs »

wil421 wrote: post #21
bananacurve wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> German companies had their trade secrets stolen by American intelligence agencies, which in turn gave those secrets to US competitors Do you have a source for that? As far as I can tell Germany wants tighter intelligence integration with the US and howls at the slightest mention of even reducing the size of US military bases on German soil.

>German companies had their trade secrets stolen by American intelligence agencies, which in turn gave those secrets to US competitors. I have yet to see anything like this in the news. Thats crazy to think the NSA is helping companies with trade secrets.

"Thats crazy to think the NSA is helping companies with trade secrets."

For Americans Europeans are crazy, aren't they? For me and a lot of other Europeans (most I think) it would be crazy (stupid) not to believe that the NSA is spying for american companies.

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#97

Post by tobltobs »

j_baker wrote: post #62

I don't get it. Why Unicef and other aid groups? I mean, foreign leaders I can somewhat understand. But what do we have to gain from spying on aid groups?

For example to know what is the best offer for a Unicef call for bids. There are lots of american companies who depend on this kind of informations.

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#98

Post by thisiswrong »

coldtea wrote: post #82
fidotron wrote: post #7

The best bit here is right in the first paragraph: "and a European Union official involved in antitrust battles with American technology businesses." Spying on foreign governments because you think they might present a threat to you in terms of war/foreign policy is generally defensible (although many on here would disagree with that), while using the apparatus of the state to support select private enterprise throug…

> Spying on foreign governments because you think they might present a threat to you in terms of war/foreign policy is generally defensible (although many on here would disagree with that), while using the apparatus of the state to support select private enterprise through espionage is not. Exactly. And this is something that has been going on for ages, To be clear, it's not like they feel they promote "select privat…

> Only someone watching too much 24 and Homeland would believe that [...]

You're picking up on something very interesting here. Sadly, you don't fully address the issue.

Hollywood propaganda [1] could very well be THE reason why we have become so politically apathetic and hence THE reason why such tyrants have managed to gain power in the USA/UK.

[1] http://www.globalresearch.ca/screen-propaganda-hollywood-and...

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#99

Post by robomartin »

To me all of this: NSA, Wars, Obamacare, IRS, Iran-fail, etc. just screams "Enough big government!".

Do you guys understand just how much all your efforts in tech could be for naught when you have government acting against you every step of the way? I would think that eventually it's got to sink in just how damaging all of this is to you. You could be an oncredible engineer or scientist and have a guy (or gal) you supported politically destroy your efforts through action or inaction. Time to really pay attention folks.

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#100

Post by icelancer »

robomartin wrote: post #99

To me all of this: NSA, Wars, Obamacare, IRS, Iran-fail, etc. just screams "Enough big government!". Do you guys understand just how much all your efforts in tech could be for naught when you have government acting against you every step of the way? I would think that eventually it's got to sink in just how damaging all of this is to you. You could be an oncredible engineer or scientist and have a guy (or gal) you su…

Yeah, but, who will build the roads and stuff? Most people would rather sacrifice their civil liberties so they can continue to get free ponies.
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