Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 122 posts

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#11

Post by dobbsbob »

cryoshon wrote: post #10

I guess this revelation should permanently put to death the canard that the NSA surveillance is strictly "for our safety" and only against suspected or potential terrorists. Of course, there will be hordes of people claiming that this piece of the puzzle is "nothing new", but it is-- this reveal is another very meaty piece of evidence for the thesis that the NSA's goal is universal control and that the terrorism just…

Intel agencies fill these charities with spies so they can identify targets families who show up for medical care in middle of nowhere Somalia. Despicable practice that lead to lot's of shootings and kidnappings of aid workers

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#12

Post by PavlovsCat »

dobbsbob wrote: post #11
cryoshon wrote: post #10

I guess this revelation should permanently put to death the canard that the NSA surveillance is strictly "for our safety" and only against suspected or potential terrorists. Of course, there will be hordes of people claiming that this piece of the puzzle is "nothing new", but it is-- this reveal is another very meaty piece of evidence for the thesis that the NSA's goal is universal control and that the terrorism just…

Intel agencies fill these charities with spies so they can identify targets families who show up for medical care in middle of nowhere Somalia. Despicable practice that lead to lot's of shootings and kidnappings of aid workers

Another example (of using humanitarians organizations or pretense for their own ends, and not giving two fucks about the fallout, I mean):

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/chomsky-boston-bom...

To locate bin Laden, the CIA launched a fraudulent vaccination campaign in a poor neighborhood, then switched it, uncompleted, to a richer area where the suspect was thought to be.

The CIA operation violated fundamental principles as old as the Hippocratic oath. It also endangered health workers associated with a polio vaccination program in Pakistan, several of whom were abducted and killed, prompting the UN to withdraw its anti-polio team.

The CIA ruse also will lead to the deaths of unknown numbers of Pakistanis who have been deprived of protection from polio because they fear that foreign killers may still be exploiting vaccination programs.

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#13

Post by adventured »

mhurron wrote: post #6
adventured wrote: post #2

I wonder what this is all going to look like when it comes out that the NSA spying has at times helped companies like Apple, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Cisco and Oracle compete with domestic and foreign competition, as well as deal with foreign government regulators.

No one seemed to care when the French did it.

I agree that industrial spying by national agencies is rather common across the globe. The only difference here is the perception and magnifying glass / media spotlight.

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#14

Post by Zigurd »

There are some curious things about the response to these revelations:

1. Zero "friendly" nations have gone beyond carping. If the NSA still thinks they can put the toothpaste back in the tube it's because nobody who matters has told them otherwise, much less acted on such a declaration.

2. Even more surprising is that zero small nations who are far down the "Eyes" hierarchy, have concluded they can't win, so they should not play the game. That is, nobody has said: "It's unacceptable for our citizens, industry, and government to be an open book to the NSA, therefore we will take action to make communication secure." You would think some nation would seize the opportunity to become the "Switzerland of data."

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#15

Post by sentenza »

fidotron wrote: post #7

The best bit here is right in the first paragraph: "and a European Union official involved in antitrust battles with American technology businesses." Spying on foreign governments because you think they might present a threat to you in terms of war/foreign policy is generally defensible (although many on here would disagree with that), while using the apparatus of the state to support select private enterprise throug…

The US has really dropped the ball here. We, here in Germany, have a mainstream political party whose leaders are blindly americophile. The last and current government are dominated by that party.

From the beginning of the crisis, these people loudly blamed the victim, accusing NSA-critics of anti-americanism and telling us that "the NSA discussion is over".

Then, with time, the industrial espionage stories started to emerge (and it became known that Merkel's phone has been bugged since 2002). Turns out, there are quite a few instances where German companies had their trade secrets stolen by American intelligence agencies, which in turn gave those secrets to US competitors.

So now even the most blindly devoted atlanticists in government know that they must do something against the NSA problem, and to make it worse, they have to do something that actually works (as opposed to feel-good measures).

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#16

Post by bananacurve »

sentenza wrote: post #15
fidotron wrote: post #7

The best bit here is right in the first paragraph: "and a European Union official involved in antitrust battles with American technology businesses." Spying on foreign governments because you think they might present a threat to you in terms of war/foreign policy is generally defensible (although many on here would disagree with that), while using the apparatus of the state to support select private enterprise throug…

The US has really dropped the ball here. We, here in Germany, have a mainstream political party whose leaders are blindly americophile. The last and current government are dominated by that party. From the beginning of the crisis, these people loudly blamed the victim, accusing NSA-critics of anti-americanism and telling us that "the NSA discussion is over". Then, with time, the industrial espionage stories started t…

> German companies had their trade secrets stolen by American intelligence agencies, which in turn gave those secrets to US competitors

Do you have a source for that? As far as I can tell Germany wants tighter intelligence integration with the US and howls at the slightest mention of even reducing the size of US military bases on German soil.

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#18

Post by mhurron »

adventured wrote: post #13
mhurron wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one seemed to care when the French did it.

I agree that industrial spying by national agencies is rather common across the globe. The only difference here is the perception and magnifying glass / media spotlight.

> media spotlight

And as soon as that passes no one will care again.

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#19

Post by lio32 »

Gentle reminder: Google willingly co-operated with the NSA and provided direct access to their systems: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-...

We can affect change by boycotting the services of Google and other tech giants. We all know that the Senate only listens to rich Corporate lobbyists rather than citizens.

Re: N.S.A. Dragnet Included Allies, Aid Groups and Business Elite

#20

Post by wil421 »

sentenza wrote: post #15
fidotron wrote: post #7

The best bit here is right in the first paragraph: "and a European Union official involved in antitrust battles with American technology businesses." Spying on foreign governments because you think they might present a threat to you in terms of war/foreign policy is generally defensible (although many on here would disagree with that), while using the apparatus of the state to support select private enterprise throug…

The US has really dropped the ball here. We, here in Germany, have a mainstream political party whose leaders are blindly americophile. The last and current government are dominated by that party. From the beginning of the crisis, these people loudly blamed the victim, accusing NSA-critics of anti-americanism and telling us that "the NSA discussion is over". Then, with time, the industrial espionage stories started t…

Could you provide some information where the NSA conducted Industrial Espionage? Merkel is a politician so I could see why she was targeted.

As far as I know China is the only one being blamed for Industrial Espionage. NSA is snooping on citizens and interest groups.

Note: I am no way in favor of any snooping on any countries citizens foreign or domestic.

Post reply on HN