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I Hope My Father Dies Soon

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Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#91

Post by RogerL »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #8

Wow. This touches home with me on many levels. I lost my parents a few years ago. Both suffered. I lost several other close family members who also suffered. And just last week somebody I was close to told me they were dying of cancer. And I'm a libertarian that strongly believes that government should keep its nose out of my life. So, of course, I'm going to play devil's advocate, at least a bit. Because if you can'…

I am not sure why someone else's morals should dictate my life. If you don't want to do all the duties of a doctor, don't be a doctor.

Back up a few hundred years, and by some it was considered immoral to cut into a person. It was immoral to dissect a corpse for study. Heck, we still have people that think it is immoral to give medicine. Shall we allow Christian Scientists to take the Hippocratic oath and then refuse to medicate based on a moral stand? No thank you. Find another job if this job offends you.

End of life is far more important to get right than the above (IMO). At least while I am sane and mobile I could realize that my doctor thinks medicine is immoral and go find alternative care. But in my last days I'm not going anywhere, I'm not making any decisions, I just get to suffer, or not.

My morals say unremitting suffering is torture. I submit my morals trump your morals when it is my life, and only my life, in question.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#92

Post by Samuel_Michon »

lostlogin wrote: post #48
JshWright wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize it's our own doing, but there is nothing 'right' (or 'left') about Christianity. That being said... your post is completely accurate (in my experience), and speaking as a Christian, that infuriates me (likely even more than it does you...)

In a 2 party system it pretty much is right or left. As a foreigner I'd argue that its far right and right though.

> I'd argue that its far right and right

Amein, that is my view as well. I was born in the Netherlands but have lived in the US for 8 years and I still spend 3 months out of the year there. My opinion is that US voters don’t really have choices. It’s right or far right. There are some fringe parties (like various socialist and green parties) but there’s no chance they’ll gain any power. In both the democratic party and the GOP there are conservatives and progressives, but it seems to me that the conservatives always win out.

As a member of Left Turn and the League of Young Voters, I volunteer to register people to vote. I know it’s not enough, but I don’t know what else to do.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#93

Post by mortyseinfeld »

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #26

Since this concerns the U.S. government, I'll say that the vendetta against euthanasia and doctor-assisted suicide by the Christian right is puzzling. The Bible has a very ambivalent view on suicide (as with any other topic), the tale of Samson being a prime example. The main argument against suicide comes from Corinthians, but it is starkly contradicted by other passages. A person who is slowly succumbing, immobile,…

You talk a lot about the "christian right", and I would agree with you on this particular case, but the "socialist left" is far more intrusive in our lives than the "christian right" is.

Get the government out our lives and stop pretending that we need the government to be our nanny.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#94

Post by wvenable »

forktheif wrote: post #17

Maybe he just didn't mention it, but nowhere in that post does it say that it was his father's wish to die if he was in such a situation. Helping someone die who made their wishes clear, I'm perfectly okay with. But assuming someone wants to die, I'm not. Whether his father made it clear or not, I don't know. It just isn't in the post.

Nobody would ask because it's not possible. Making the wish is pointless as well. If his father has lost most of his mental capability (as mentioned in the article) at this point it's far too late to ask the question.

You have to ask yourself if there was a formal process with the list of outcomes and possibilities, how would you answer?

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#95

Post by RogerL »

MetaCosm wrote: post #52
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #8

Wow. This touches home with me on many levels. I lost my parents a few years ago. Both suffered. I lost several other close family members who also suffered. And just last week somebody I was close to told me they were dying of cancer. And I'm a libertarian that strongly believes that government should keep its nose out of my life. So, of course, I'm going to play devil's advocate, at least a bit. Because if you can'…

It is important to understand that unless you build an "extreme" living will (food and water denial), there are many circumstances where you will still be tortured indefinitely. I speak from family experience. My father suffered many strokes towards the end. This caused neuropathic pain ... completely untreatable pain coming from inside his brain (primary somatic sensory cortex). He lost his ability to speak, move, a…

Something very similar happened with my mother. She spent the night incoherently begging to die. We talked with the doctor the next day, and asked him to end it. He explained that the laws did not allow that, they they could only do something for the pain.

A bit later the nurse came in with a big syringe of Dilaudid and pushed it as fast as possible (it should be injected very slowly over time). She bent over, looked into her eyes and felt her pulse, and told us to say our goodbyes now if we were going to, and left us alone. It was as kind an act as anyone could perform for a person and/or family.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#96

Post by vezzy-fnord »

season234 wrote: post #65
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #26

Since this concerns the U.S. government, I'll say that the vendetta against euthanasia and doctor-assisted suicide by the Christian right is puzzling. The Bible has a very ambivalent view on suicide (as with any other topic), the tale of Samson being a prime example. The main argument against suicide comes from Corinthians, but it is starkly contradicted by other passages. A person who is slowly succumbing, immobile,…

On really? Christians back change in assisted suicide law, poll finds: http://www.jacquelinejencquel.com/post/christians-back-chang... By the way, it's great that you generalize an entire group because of your preconceived biases against them. Imagine if you changed the word "Christians" to "Muslims" or "blacks". Do you realize how bigoted you sound?

I was specifically referring to the Christian right, which is a political movement in the United States.

Obviously the views I described do not apply to all Christians.

Oh, and don't conflate religion with race.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#97

Post by mturmon »

badman_ting wrote: post #76

Sorry, but I am getting really tired of this form of discourse. A million interests prevent you from doing a million things every day, but apparently it's only objectionable and worth remarking about when it's the government. And it's not even like I disagree with him -- yes we should allow assisted suicide. But boy oh boy is it hard not to notice that he wastes no time thinking about why things are this way, or whic…

I agree with you. The post highlights a problem, but tantrum-like blaming of "the government" is counterproductive. There are a lot of interests (some legitimate, some not) and gotcha's (it's no accident that "they killed her for the inheritance" is a staple), and inertia (people don't seem to like to rally around assisted suicide as a cause).

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#98

Post by Samuel_Michon »

GalacticDomin8r wrote: post #41
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #26

Since this concerns the U.S. government, I'll say that the vendetta against euthanasia and doctor-assisted suicide by the Christian right is puzzling. The Bible has a very ambivalent view on suicide (as with any other topic), the tale of Samson being a prime example. The main argument against suicide comes from Corinthians, but it is starkly contradicted by other passages. A person who is slowly succumbing, immobile,…

The bible doesn't condemn suicide(or abortion) anywhere in it directly. However, as with any good moral book, it is ambiguous. You can use it advocate any position you chose. > Yet the Christian right insists that the agony be prolonged to a maximum. Christianity didn't always hold this view. I suppose some of the movement comes from the commandment "Thou shall not kill". Of course that is a very poor translation. A…

> Thou shalt not kill

IMO, the question at hand is more like: ‘should we keep someone on life support when there is little to no chance that person will get better?’. And is taking someone off life support really the same as murder?

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#99

Post by rodgerd »

ygmelnikova wrote: post #53
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #26

Since this concerns the U.S. government, I'll say that the vendetta against euthanasia and doctor-assisted suicide by the Christian right is puzzling. The Bible has a very ambivalent view on suicide (as with any other topic), the tale of Samson being a prime example. The main argument against suicide comes from Corinthians, but it is starkly contradicted by other passages. A person who is slowly succumbing, immobile,…

Most folk would choose everything medically possible to be performed to keep them going for another 24 hours. Why question medicine and ethics when you can kick a Christian instead?

Please feel free to demonstrate that the majority of opposition to voluntary euthanasia in the United States is driven by groups other than Christian ones.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#100

Post by Houshalter »

jl6 wrote: post #90

I don't wish to minimise his situation but it seems like he considers his father's suffering not quite as bad as his own suffering were he just to do the killing himself and take the jail sentence.

That's a good point actually. Especially if you could do it with low risk of being caught/convicted. Which should be possible with someone who is dying anyways and you have full access to them in the hospital and could just slip some poison or something into them.

I don't blame the author for not doing that though. Maybe it didn't even occur to him. But it's a good point that if you truly thought it was so terrible you should want to try to stop it even if it's illegal.

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