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Visual Studio 2013 released to web

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Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#91

Post by [deleted] »

jbigelow76 wrote: post #70
anton_gogolev wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not necessarily "monkeys", but, disturbingly, Microsoft developer tools are becoming more and more oriented towards "wizard-and-designer-clickety-clickery" type development. There are a few exceptions to this rule (think EF Code-First), but that's a drop in the ocean.

>Microsoft developer tools are becoming more and more oriented towards "wizard-and-designer-clickety-clickery" type development. Weird, I have the exact opposite impression. It seems like forever ago that VS was touting things like drag and drop design or wizardy stuff.

[deleted]

Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#92

Post by jaredsohn »

daigoba66 wrote: post #17
Pxtl wrote: post #12

VS2012 took out installer projects (instead telling you to just use InstallShield), SQLCLR projects, was incompatible with Oleg Sych's T4 Toolbox plug-in, and had a colour-scheme in the TFS source browser that made my eyes want to bleed. Every other VS upgrade has been comparatively painless. I can't say I'm excited to try VS2013.

For installers, use http://wixtoolset.org/ .

I've always liked InnoSetup (http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.php). You describe your installation in a short file created via its syntax-highlighting IDE. A big con is that its scripting is done in Pascal, but you can likely find existing scripts to do many common operations.

Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#93

Post by scrabble »

pionar wrote: post #11
scrabble wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the improvements we'd get in Entity Framework performance, testing, and analysis would be well worth it.

> I think the improvements we'd get in Entity Framework performance Technically, that's not a VS2012 or 2013 feature, that comes from .NET 4.5, which you can use with VS 2010. However, the testing and analysis is well worth it. I don't know what your source control is, but paired with TFS 2012, it's a pretty large productivity improvement for my team over VS 2010 (as large as you can get from an IDE upgrade).

I'm using SVN for source control.

And I'm a little confused on the first part, because .NET 4.5 is not supported in Visual Studio 2010.

Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#94

Post by yuhong »

acqq wrote: post #26
chillitom wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man! If you're doing C++ then you definitely want to get onto 2012/2013 ASAP, the improvements in tooling are amazing. "Navigate to.." alone is worth it.

VS 2008 is the last one capable to compile the C++ to produce the binaries that can run on Windows 2000. Believe or not, I actually need that. That prevents me to use any C++ language changes introduced after VS 2008. The frustrating part is that MS actually removed the existing code from the already existing libraries (but which are not binary interchangeable between the compiler versions) in order to disable the su…

Yea, MS even begin to remove references to old Windows versions from MSDN after they go out of support.

Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#95

Post by 727374 »

This rant has been brewing for many years...

Everything's been downhill since VS6. I'm only joking, but seriously, does anyone remember how lightning fast VS6 was? That was over 15 years ago with much slower computers. I guess application 'snappiness' has not been a priority for the Visual Studio decision makers.

I've used VS since the late 90s (writing node.js in ST2 now) and honestly appreciate the hard work and cool features that goes into it. The new VS2013 feature that shows how often a function is referenced is useful. I don't get that in ST2 and probably never will. But I've used VS enough that I've become philosophically opposed to it and other similar IDEs. The core of the problem for me was that all the fancy wizards and project templates are not maintainable for MS. There were a number of times I was using some new project type introduced in a version of VS only to find the template was incompatible in the next version (e.g. reporting in 2005). This inevitably lead to a lot of unexpected work when my team would upgrade. Many of the productivity wizards impose hidden debt on their users.

Another major gripe was that VS would get really sludgy for solutions with a great number of projects/files. Take note that whenever you see MS demo a hot new feature, it's always with a very simple solution. Also, VS would block for me a lot, but that was probably due using too many plugins. I'd find that an application freeze of even 2 seconds would distract me. Not an issue I face now with a text editor + repl.

Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#96

Post by [deleted] »

duiker101 wrote: post #20
Pxtl wrote: post #12

VS2012 took out installer projects (instead telling you to just use InstallShield), SQLCLR projects, was incompatible with Oleg Sych's T4 Toolbox plug-in, and had a colour-scheme in the TFS source browser that made my eyes want to bleed. Every other VS upgrade has been comparatively painless. I can't say I'm excited to try VS2013.

I think the problem here is that VS needs to satisfy the needs of many different types of developers and also try to appeal each ones personal preferences. Personally I am enjoying VS2012 a lot and it is really sad that there are hardly other IDEs this good.

[deleted]

Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#97

Post by mischanix »

platz wrote: post #86
jpalomaki wrote: post #77

And finally we should be able to see function return values in debugger: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudioalm/archive/2013/06/27/s...

That's a great feature which will actually help avoid creating local bindings just to easily see the value.

You can also reference register values (e.g. rax) in quickwatch and cast them to the appropriate type.

Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#99

Post by timthorn »

727374 wrote: post #95

This rant has been brewing for many years... Everything's been downhill since VS6. I'm only joking, but seriously, does anyone remember how lightning fast VS6 was? That was over 15 years ago with much slower computers. I guess application 'snappiness' has not been a priority for the Visual Studio decision makers. I've used VS since the late 90s (writing node.js in ST2 now) and honestly appreciate the hard work and co…

VS6 was a massive downgrade on VS5, in that the help system was no longer treated as a dockable window within VS. I relied on the documentation at that point, but when VS6 came along it was no longer something I could easily have in front of me, with my code, with the VS window full screen.

Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#100

Post by overgryphon »

727374 wrote: post #95

This rant has been brewing for many years... Everything's been downhill since VS6. I'm only joking, but seriously, does anyone remember how lightning fast VS6 was? That was over 15 years ago with much slower computers. I guess application 'snappiness' has not been a priority for the Visual Studio decision makers. I've used VS since the late 90s (writing node.js in ST2 now) and honestly appreciate the hard work and co…

I think you may have selective memory with regards to VS6 (understandable over 15 years). Having recently worked at a company that for silly reasons did not upgrade beyond VS6, it was not lightning fast, took several minutes to open, and crashed frequently even with smaller projects.

Modern VS really needs to work on managing large projects- but this isn't something it ever had to begin with, and has certainly improved since VS6 despite added functionality. The responsiveness issues you list seem a little more problematic than normal from my experiences- I would definitely try uninstalling a few plugins and seeing if that helps.

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