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Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

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Re: Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

#91

Post by kamaal »

thewarrior wrote: post #75
kamaal wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only problem with big companies is, no matter who they are on an average large set ups are almost the same. There are some minor variations here and there. But your net experience will converge or move around the same point. I don't know much about Google. But from whatever I've heard. The awesome projects where all this nirvana level work happens are very difficult to get into and bulk of the work is really main…

But they pay way more right ? That has to count for something .

That is why you must contribute what they deserve and nothing extra.

Re: Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

#92

Post by eli_gottlieb »

orangethirty wrote: post #19
dsowers wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm merely suggesting that most engineers who take the time to study for these interviews are probably good enough to make money on their own somehow. Whether that is a startup, consulting, lifestyle business, or something else... If people just focused on doing a lot of great work, then the jobs will come to them. I hate to see talented people wasting their time preparing for these interviews. The opportunity cost i…

Yes, I understand your point. And its valid. Though I disagree with the part where people who are good enough to do X might be good enough to start a business, or consult. From my experience that has not been the case. I've met and helped a lot of brilliant programmers along the way, and few of them were capable of running or learning how to run a business. Note that I don't mean that people can't learn, but my exper…

Meh. Running a business is a different thing from software engineering or coding or computer-science. Why should everyone be suitable for a business role?

Re: Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

#93

Post by eli_gottlieb »

intractable wrote: post #76
hjalle wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would not for example C# or C++ count as multi paradigm as it can be considered to support both imperative and object oriented programming?

OO is a subset of imperative. Can you name me an OO language which doesn't support imperative programming?

Smalltalk is pretty damn functional, actually.

Re: Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

#95

Post by alberich »

thewarrior wrote: post #75
kamaal wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only problem with big companies is, no matter who they are on an average large set ups are almost the same. There are some minor variations here and there. But your net experience will converge or move around the same point. I don't know much about Google. But from whatever I've heard. The awesome projects where all this nirvana level work happens are very difficult to get into and bulk of the work is really main…

But they pay way more right ? That has to count for something .

Do they? I've heard (I must confess it was years ago) that google paid less. People went there because it was cool and all that hype.

Re: Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

#96

Post by WickyNilliams »

DanWaterworth wrote: post #40

> Master at least one multi-paradigm language ... Some good candidates are C#, C++, Java, PHP, Python, and Ruby. They all look imperative to me, what happened to multi-paradigm?

Whilst I can't speak for the others, C# has some interesting facets which most other languages do not. For example first-class functions and lambdas, LINQ, type inference. It also has some nice syntactical sugar like the coalesce operator.

Re: Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

#97

Post by stonemetal »

thewarrior wrote: post #75
kamaal wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only problem with big companies is, no matter who they are on an average large set ups are almost the same. There are some minor variations here and there. But your net experience will converge or move around the same point. I don't know much about Google. But from whatever I've heard. The awesome projects where all this nirvana level work happens are very difficult to get into and bulk of the work is really main…

But they pay way more right ? That has to count for something .

http://jacquesmattheij.com/Programmers+Salaries+at+google+25...

Claims 130 is about average engineer salary at the big G.

Re: Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

#98

Post by Nursie »

Jabbles wrote: post #82
SiVal wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but the thing that reeks of entitlement is Google's abusive "we can pass you from interviewer to interviewer, making you do anything we want for days, and you'll take it because there are plenty more where you came from," hiring practices. If Google thinks they have the power to do what they want to a candidate, and the GP poster thinks he has the power to limit how much of his time he'll offer them, I don't s…

"making you do anything we want for days" Days? I believe the median is 5 hours. The decision may then take days... but that's not the same thing.

When I was talking to them I was informed the hiring process usually took around 8-9 weeks. First a screening call, then a phone interview, then sometime later an in person interview, then an evaluation day in a Google building with multiple interviews and talks with various parts of various teams, then they would let you know within a couple of weeks.

Yeah, no thanks.

Re: Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

#99

Post by Nursie »

dsowers wrote: post #7

You can build a startup in the time it takes to thoroughly prepare for these interviews/positions. Willingly subjecting yourself to this rat race is essentially the same thing as stamping yourself as an "ibm man," in the words of Jobs. Who cares if you don't know the intricacies of all the hot algorithms of the day. Spend your time creating actual value for the world, instead of practicing just for the sake of impres…

IBM do some good engineering, generally treat their employees well, have favourable maternity benefits, and employ some great people.

Probably not going to be your first choice if what you want is a small, dynamic, startup atmosphere, but as an employer I wouldn't fault them.

(yes, ex-employee)

Re: Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

#100

Post by ap22213 »

codex wrote: post #70
kanzure wrote: post #43

Hiring is entirely broken. I don't think anyone is listening to developers. I took some data about this (tracking pixel in a Developer Auction profile), but someone did an even better job than me and posted in these comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5730843 I want a company that treats me with dignity and respect, even before and during the interviewing pipeline. How a company treats people during interv…

Bootcamp in the Marine Corps is an example of a tough hiring practice. Are your friends and family doctors or lawyers, per chance? Both professions use grueling hiring marathons which are much, much worse than a software engineering interview (residency and the bar exam). All other engineering professions require a rigorous licensing process, whereas software engineering is one of the cushiest jobs on the planet. In…

In a certain state of the economy, you're right. But, at least here in the US, we currently have way more demand for good developers than we have supply. Basic economics says that your model will not work.

For example, the company for which I work bills me out at $250 / hr. I get something like 15-30 job requests from other companies a week. It would not make any economic sense for me to pursue any of these other companies unless the interview process was dead simple, transparent, and easy (and the total compensation was _at least_ 15% higher than my current compensation). But, 99% of them will only offer modest pay adjustment (%2-3?), and then they expect me to sit through several hours of interviews. And, if I pass that nontransparent process, they ask me to sign a ridiculous employment agreement that signs away all my personal IP. Seriously?

The problem with recruiting today is that most companies who have good talent understand how valuable their best talent is. They treat them very well. And, the companies that want to obtain that talent completely under-offer their side of the deal.

Another problem is that most developers suck at negotiation. I see lots of anger on HN about not getting the 6-figure salary. Well, that's their fault for not asking for it. If they're a relatively good developer (top 25%), they should be making at least 6-figure, easy. And, if they're not, that's their fault, not the fault of others that know their value and how to demand a cut of it.

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