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Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

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Re: Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

#81

Post by SiVal »

codex wrote: post #70
kanzure wrote: post #43

Hiring is entirely broken. I don't think anyone is listening to developers. I took some data about this (tracking pixel in a Developer Auction profile), but someone did an even better job than me and posted in these comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5730843 I want a company that treats me with dignity and respect, even before and during the interviewing pipeline. How a company treats people during interv…

Bootcamp in the Marine Corps is an example of a tough hiring practice. Are your friends and family doctors or lawyers, per chance? Both professions use grueling hiring marathons which are much, much worse than a software engineering interview (residency and the bar exam). All other engineering professions require a rigorous licensing process, whereas software engineering is one of the cushiest jobs on the planet. In…

Sorry, but the thing that reeks of entitlement is Google's abusive "we can pass you from interviewer to interviewer, making you do anything we want for days, and you'll take it because there are plenty more where you came from," hiring practices. If Google thinks they have the power to do what they want to a candidate, and the GP poster thinks he has the power to limit how much of his time he'll offer them, I don't see why he is the only one accused of reeking of entitlement.

Re: Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

#82

Post by Jabbles »

SiVal wrote: post #81
codex wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bootcamp in the Marine Corps is an example of a tough hiring practice. Are your friends and family doctors or lawyers, per chance? Both professions use grueling hiring marathons which are much, much worse than a software engineering interview (residency and the bar exam). All other engineering professions require a rigorous licensing process, whereas software engineering is one of the cushiest jobs on the planet. In…

Sorry, but the thing that reeks of entitlement is Google's abusive "we can pass you from interviewer to interviewer, making you do anything we want for days, and you'll take it because there are plenty more where you came from," hiring practices. If Google thinks they have the power to do what they want to a candidate, and the GP poster thinks he has the power to limit how much of his time he'll offer them, I don't s…

"making you do anything we want for days"

Days? I believe the median is 5 hours. The decision may then take days... but that's not the same thing.

Re: Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

#83

Post by gordaco »

rubinelli wrote: post #69
archer174 wrote: post #48

Every time I read the word passion in one of these articles I cringe. This has to be the most overused word in silicon valley. It's really just a convenient way to abuse people. Can't work 90 hours? Not passionate enough. Have a family commitment? Where's your passion? Passion. We get it already.

The thing people forget about passion is that it doesn't last. Passion is for kids. By all means, work on what you love , but remember you're an adult and set the right pace.

Absolutely this. I used to be passionate, in the first months of my (poorly paid) first job. I won't commit the same mistake again, I learned quickly that life is more important than work.

Re: Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

#84

Post by ozgung »

codex wrote: post #70
kanzure wrote: post #43

Hiring is entirely broken. I don't think anyone is listening to developers. I took some data about this (tracking pixel in a Developer Auction profile), but someone did an even better job than me and posted in these comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5730843 I want a company that treats me with dignity and respect, even before and during the interviewing pipeline. How a company treats people during interv…

Bootcamp in the Marine Corps is an example of a tough hiring practice. Are your friends and family doctors or lawyers, per chance? Both professions use grueling hiring marathons which are much, much worse than a software engineering interview (residency and the bar exam). All other engineering professions require a rigorous licensing process, whereas software engineering is one of the cushiest jobs on the planet. In…

Two wrongs don't make a right. Hiring is broken in general and it's even more broken in SW and engineering. Not only hiring is broken, but most exams and tests are also broken. It's always possible to cheat, game the system or fake. When we were students all of us experienced studying a subject just before an exam and immediately forgetting it afterwards. Exams don't prove that you really know the topic. More importantly, you may still fail at an exam when you know the topic well but not prepared properly. The underlying assumption in these hiring processes is that the interviewer knows the difference between a good hire and a bad one, therefore she knows exactly what to test. This is far from reality. The truth is that the test is arbitrary and the candidates are expected to comply.

Re: Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

#85

Post by objclxt »

kanzure wrote: post #43

Hiring is entirely broken. I don't think anyone is listening to developers. I took some data about this (tracking pixel in a Developer Auction profile), but someone did an even better job than me and posted in these comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5730843 I want a company that treats me with dignity and respect, even before and during the interviewing pipeline. How a company treats people during interv…

> I want a "1-hour guarantee" that I'll receive your considered offer after one hour of interviewing

...I wouldn't have hired many of my fellow engineers after an hour. I would at least want two interviews, one with me (the line manager), and one with my team.

To flip it the other way round, I don't think I could get a good enough feel for an employer from a single hour. I'm not sure this works for everyone.

I would, however, hire a consultant after an hour's interview. The difference is, at least in the country I live in, is that I can fire the consultant with almost no notice, whereas a FTE is more of an investment.

Re: Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

#86

Post by objclxt »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #67
callmeed wrote: post #9

Really good post, thanks David. I'm really curious as to how you landed an interview at Google (let alone a job) without a college degree. My understanding is they are very strict about that and it's hard to even get a foot in the door without a degree. [disclosure: I'm on a 10 year "hiatus" from my senior year in college]

I was contacted by Google without them knowing I had a degree, although they knew by the time I was scheduled for an interview. Apparently washing out in round one of Google Code Jame 2012 was enough for them to seek me out. I performed to expectation by similarly washing out of the interview. Steve Yegge wrote that you should apply to Google, no matter whether you think they'll take you or not, because it's a desira…

I feel compelled to add to this: degrees are used as a filter for graduate level jobs. I do have a degree, but it's a studio art degree (i.e, painting, drawing, etc). I've had interviews with Google in the past, and like the parent it was just through recruiters getting in touch. At a certain point, your experience matters significantly more than the degree.

I also washed out, but it was pretty enjoyable. I certainly wouldn't describe it as a hazing.

Re: Always Be Coding – How to Land an Engineering Job

#90

Post by eli_gottlieb »

codex wrote: post #70
kanzure wrote: post #43

Hiring is entirely broken. I don't think anyone is listening to developers. I took some data about this (tracking pixel in a Developer Auction profile), but someone did an even better job than me and posted in these comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5730843 I want a company that treats me with dignity and respect, even before and during the interviewing pipeline. How a company treats people during interv…

Bootcamp in the Marine Corps is an example of a tough hiring practice. Are your friends and family doctors or lawyers, per chance? Both professions use grueling hiring marathons which are much, much worse than a software engineering interview (residency and the bar exam). All other engineering professions require a rigorous licensing process, whereas software engineering is one of the cushiest jobs on the planet. In…

A qualification process is very different from a hiring process. You only pass through engineering exams, the bar exam, or medical residency once. In your life. A coder will probably go through a dozen different hiring rounds over their career, assuming each hiring round actually leads to a long-term job.
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