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Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive

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Re: Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive

#91

Post by InclinedPlane »

eruditely wrote: post #69
simonsarris wrote: post #45

"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him." -Dostoevsky On twitter a lot of people are essentially saying "Good, now we'll get answers. " I'm sorry to say I don't believe there is typically anything satisfying about the answers of people who become deranged. Maybe this time, but if reading about madmen past is any guide, its very unlikely that we will be enligh…

The unabomber's manifesto was highly enlightening, and also frightening for how right he seemed on some of his points even if you technically disagree with many of them.

How old is the maxim "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"? And yet how often do we ignore it?

Much of the worst evil in history has been committed in service to a hypothetical greater good, or in retribution against very real wrongs. Germany had serious grievances in their treatment after WWI, for example. Communism, including Stalinism and Maoism, was a response against an extremely unjust social and economic order. Just because you've been wronged and victimized doesn't give you free reign to commit wrongs yourself.

Re: Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive

#92

Post by incision »

nostromo wrote: post #80
simonsarris wrote: post #45

"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him." -Dostoevsky On twitter a lot of people are essentially saying "Good, now we'll get answers. " I'm sorry to say I don't believe there is typically anything satisfying about the answers of people who become deranged. Maybe this time, but if reading about madmen past is any guide, its very unlikely that we will be enligh…

I interpret that quote differently than you. To me he's saying not that we won't learn anything from evildoers, but that it's important that we really try. And I think that's exactly right. The younger suspect seems by all accounts to be a smart young man. It's important that we try to understand what drove him to do something so terrible, even as we denounce it.

>To me he's saying not that we won't learn anything from evildoers, but that it's important that we really try.

I read it the same way.

Though, I don't think it's about literally learning from any individual, but to attempt to understand the underlying mechanisms.

Re: Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive

#93

Post by Pxtl »

citricsquid wrote: post #21

Earlier I was reading through the Twitter account of the now apprehended suspect and what is most striking is just how normal he is. Every one of his tweets could have been attributed to a completely normal teenager, he couldn't be more generic. It's strange how Twitter offers an insight into his life... but really it doesn't show anything. When someone blew people up in the 90s the news would report they're crazy, w…

Well, not all of them... I remember there was one native kid who made the news a few years back that had massively telegraphed his plans. He'd made Flash animations of murder-suicide killing sprees and hung around on neo-Nazi forums before he went off.

Re: Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive

#94

Post by Aloisius »

pekk wrote: post #63
corwinstephen wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They come from a very Islamic country and it's been said that they'd recently started wearing traditional Muslim clothing--a switch from the european clothing they'd been wearing for most of their lives. It's easy for kids to become obsessed with a cause... even if it's a terrible one. Basically, all signs point to this being just another religious extremist attack.

At the time they came to the US, they were tiny little boys. They are from the US, we just don't want to own them.

The older brother was 15 or 16 when he immigrated to the US. That's not exactly a tiny little boy.

Re: Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive

#95

Post by rdl »

chadillac83 wrote: post #83
rdl wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting comparing their behavior to the LAPD/etc. during the Christopher Dorner manhunt a few months ago.

I think the Dorner thing has some factors you're not quite taking into account. 1. He was a trained professional 2. He knew their hand, their next move even 3. He was an outed cop on a rampage based on inequality in the ranks of the LAPD I don't think Dorner was ever going to be brought in alive, the LAPD didn't want him to have a soap box to preach from or to give him hero status. I remember shaking my head as I lis…

#2 and #3 support the thesis "BPD > LAPD", along with your other points.

#1 might be countered with "he was a radical Islamic jihadist" (in the worst case).

Re: Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive

#98

Post by clawrencewenham »

Anechoic wrote: post #85
clawrencewenham wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what 128 is, but I know of people who were taking Amtrak to Connecticut but had to get off at NYC and travel uptown to Grand Central Station to get on a commuter train. They weren't going to Boston. Amtrak service was halted north of NYC because of this manhunt. I do know that much of Boston had no choice but to take a day off on Friday. I know the Bruins game was cancelled, and that Comic Con was "postp…

I don't know what 128 is Route 128 is the loop highway running around Boston. I do know that much of Boston had no choice but to take a day off on Friday Much of Boston is not the same as "a large portion of New England." New England is ~14 million people. The affected areas covered about 600K people. may have cost hundreds of millions, perhaps billions of dollars in economic losses. Your own link doesn't support "bi…

> Much of Boston is not the same as "a large portion of New England."

Alright, much of Boston is not "a large portion of New England" but to use your figures, even 600 thousand is still huge. Does it really disprove my point that this manhunt will have enormous economic consequences? Even if our economy can absorb it, we must address the fact that the cost was staggering in proportion to what it cost the bombers to conduct their attack.

> In any event, extraordinary events require an extraordinary response.

Bruce Schneier pointed out, once, that airport security was brittle because it couldn't contain an event to the gate: it had to shut down a whole terminal and often--such as with the LAX evacuations after 9/11, an entire airport. This event shut down the work of perhaps 600,000 for the price of some pressure cookers and black powder.

If it cost a few hundred dollars to shut down 600,000 hosts or terminals on the Internet, we would be looking at ways to improve security and protocols so that such an inexpensive attack could not force such enormous losses.

I think we should brainstorm ways to block this vulnerability. It should not be possible for two guys, 26 and 19 years old, to freeze a major city.

Re: Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive

#99

Post by jlgreco »

andrewpi wrote: post #88
jlgreco wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, I wonder if the Amish do jury duty...

Generally not.. it is considered against their religious belief to judge others.

Aye. I imagine it would be bad form to deliberately choose Jury members all from one religious group anyway.

Re: Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive

#100

Post by eruditely »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #91
eruditely wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The unabomber's manifesto was highly enlightening, and also frightening for how right he seemed on some of his points even if you technically disagree with many of them.

How old is the maxim "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"? And yet how often do we ignore it? Much of the worst evil in history has been committed in service to a hypothetical greater good, or in retribution against very real wrongs. Germany had serious grievances in their treatment after WWI, for example. Communism, including Stalinism and Maoism, was a response against an extremely unjust social and eco…

Who are you talking to? Nobody justified anybodies work, not this terrorist, not the unabomber and not any other organized retribution in history.

No commentary was made except that the unabombers manifesto was enlightening. That is all.

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