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Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive

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Re: Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive

#81

Post by philwelch »

marknutter wrote: post #34
frisco wrote: post #14

I can't help but feel like these brothers are also victims here. Of course, their victimhood is nothing like what they inflicted on the people of Boston and the marathoners, but they're victims nonetheless. Humans are glorified chemical reaction vessels; somehow, they ended up going down a path that led them here. Was there any alternative? Was it the education system? Social circumstances? I'm sure the magnitude of…

This kind of thinking is very dangerous and can be used to excuse all sorts of terrible behavior. We are all responsible for our actions. I can't prove that we have free will, but I feel it's important to believe it.

Even if you don't have free will, if you set off bombs and shoot cops for no good reason, there is something wrong with the way you're wired inside. Someone might even say it's "your fault".

Re: Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive

#82

Post by vwinsyee »

dkhenry wrote: post #38
frisco wrote: post #14

I can't help but feel like these brothers are also victims here. Of course, their victimhood is nothing like what they inflicted on the people of Boston and the marathoners, but they're victims nonetheless. Humans are glorified chemical reaction vessels; somehow, they ended up going down a path that led them here. Was there any alternative? Was it the education system? Social circumstances? I'm sure the magnitude of…

I see this argument boiling down to two trains of thought. One is that people are fundamentally good and only external forces make them do bad things. That appears to be the opinion you have expressed. The second is that people are fundamentally bad and that external forces are required to keep them from doing bad things. I think the more you look at the world the more you find this second postulate is the right one,…

Reality is not so dichotomized. Human choices are influenced by both nature and nurture (i.e. environment). In psychobiology, I believe the consensus is that nurture contributes at least 50% to personality development and consequently propensity for certain choices and behavior. If inherent nature can't be changed, how could have the environment been different, to change the outcome? That was what I got from the parent comment.

By the way, if we're talking about "fundamental" qualities of a person -- from a biological standpoint, there is some evidence for a genetic propensity toward 'good' (e.g. altruism) or 'bad' (e.g. violent) behavior. But the vast majority of people land somewhere in the middle.

Re: Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive

#83

Post by chadillac83 »

rdl wrote: post #6
ericb wrote: post #3

I'm impressed with the professionalism of the Boston police. After cops killed, and a day-long adrenaline filled hunt, they managed to remain professional for the sake of the greater good and take this schmuck alive. edit: I guess only 1 cop was killed?

It's interesting comparing their behavior to the LAPD/etc. during the Christopher Dorner manhunt a few months ago.

I think the Dorner thing has some factors you're not quite taking into account.

1. He was a trained professional 2. He knew their hand, their next move even 3. He was an outed cop on a rampage based on inequality in the ranks of the LAPD

I don't think Dorner was ever going to be brought in alive, the LAPD didn't want him to have a soap box to preach from or to give him hero status. I remember shaking my head as I listened to police scanner while they started to set the cabin on fire.

This was a scared confused kid hiding in a boat with the nation watching and wanting to hear what he had to say. The other seemed more like a shut it up, sweep it under the rug, the guy is a nut, let's all just forget this happened kinda thing.

Re: Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive

#84

Post by [deleted] »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #65
frisco wrote: post #14

I can't help but feel like these brothers are also victims here. Of course, their victimhood is nothing like what they inflicted on the people of Boston and the marathoners, but they're victims nonetheless. Humans are glorified chemical reaction vessels; somehow, they ended up going down a path that led them here. Was there any alternative? Was it the education system? Social circumstances? I'm sure the magnitude of…

Denying people agency for their actions is just as dangerous and dehumanizing as vilifying them as inhuman monsters. They are human monsters who are responsible for their own actions.

[deleted]

Re: Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive

#85

Post by Anechoic »

clawrencewenham wrote: post #48
Anechoic wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* they shut down a large portion of New England* No, "they" really didn't. Life was pretty much normal outside of 128.

I don't know what 128 is, but I know of people who were taking Amtrak to Connecticut but had to get off at NYC and travel uptown to Grand Central Station to get on a commuter train. They weren't going to Boston. Amtrak service was halted north of NYC because of this manhunt. I do know that much of Boston had no choice but to take a day off on Friday. I know the Bruins game was cancelled, and that Comic Con was "postp…

I don't know what 128 is

Route 128 is the loop highway running around Boston.

I do know that much of Boston had no choice but to take a day off on Friday

Much of Boston is not the same as "a large portion of New England." New England is ~14 million people. The affected areas covered about 600K people.

may have cost hundreds of millions, perhaps billions of dollars in economic losses.

Your own link doesn't support "billions of dollars in economic losses." In any event, extraordinary events require an extraordinary response. In any event, I can't see how having those streets packed with cars and pedestrian traffic (as happens on a normal Friday) would have done anything but hinder the manhunt.

Re: Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive

#86

Post by vwinsyee »

cema wrote: post #39
caf wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how they'll find a jury that doesn't already think he's guilty.

Well, look at the currently top comment ( http://tf-575.com/images/renders/ ), they are victims, see... A jury is possible, yes.

This link needs an NSFW tag...

Re: Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive

#88

Post by andrewpi »

jlgreco wrote: post #32
caf wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how they'll find a jury that doesn't already think he's guilty.

Hmm, I wonder if the Amish do jury duty...

Generally not.. it is considered against their religious belief to judge others.

Re: Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive

#89

Post by Pxtl »

darxius wrote: post #44
Pxtl wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Canada one of our party leaders is under fire for having an ounce of concern about what led these men to this point. For asking how a person gets so disconnected from society that they can wage war against it like this. The right-wing backlash against these questions has been immense.

Who was it (which party)? I'm canadian too but haven't kept up with our local press.

Justin Trudeau, the Liberals just wrapped up their public internal vote thingy and he's the new leader. The Conservatives are trying to paint him as the dumb kid who's only in politics because of his dad.

Soon after the bombing, before anybody identified the attackers, Trudeau discussed it in an interview with Peter Mansbridge.

article:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/04/17/trudeaus-response-to...

Relevant quote:

Trudeau said he would offer the American material support “and at the same time, over the coming days, we have to look at the root causes.”

“Now, we don’t know now if it was terrorism or a single crazy or a domestic issue or a foreign issue,” he said. “But there is no question that this happened because there is someone who feels completely excluded. Completely at war with innocents. At war with a society. And our approach has to be, where do those tensions come from?

“Yes, there’s a need for security and response,” Trudeau added. “But we also need to make sure that as we go forward, that we don’t emphasize a culture of fear and mistrust. Because that ends up marginalizing even further those who already are feeling like they are enemies of society.”

Re: Boston Bombing Suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Apprehended Alive

#90

Post by danbruc »

[deleted] wrote: post #47
frisco wrote: post #14

I can't help but feel like these brothers are also victims here. Of course, their victimhood is nothing like what they inflicted on the people of Boston and the marathoners, but they're victims nonetheless. Humans are glorified chemical reaction vessels; somehow, they ended up going down a path that led them here. Was there any alternative? Was it the education system? Social circumstances? I'm sure the magnitude of…

[deleted]

»We all have choices and free will [...]« is debatable. There are probably better times to do this but it is definitely debatable.
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