Live data from Hacker News

Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

jeffjlin.com

91–100 of 111 posts

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#91
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha. Not from there, but every Icelander I've met "knew" Bjork, but that may be because it's half the size of Wyoming and is much, much more isolated.

Just for clarification, I think Wyo is this case is referring to Wyomissing, PA

Gah, I even Googled to make sure, guess I didn't do a good job. Thanks for that.

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

survivor bias. you just don't see all the other people "sticking to it" and never making it. you're discounting luck, chance, etc. one bad decision or just bad luck moment and you're toast. and for female singers - if your genes made you butt ugly, no career for you, no matter how great you sing.

I'm not saying she's ugly, but Susan Boyles made a huge impact at the "Britain's Got Talent" show when she was nearly 50. Today, her voice makes her millions. Even women can be successful at any point in their life. I don't know what it takes to be successful (different people have different definitions of that term), but being pretty is not a necessity.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but she's hardly a celebrity in Britain anymore. Like most of the winners on these "talent shows", she has been milked of all profitability and is now forgotten by the wayside.

Of course, all she had to put up with was a total nervous breakdown.

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#93
post #26

What I think is fascinating is not Ang Lee's determination to last those 6 years, thought that is impressive. It is that his wife and family supported him for all those years (granted, it seems he was providing childcare). And believed in him, to the point of scolding him when he considered switching to a more immediately lucrative career. We should all be so generous to our partners.

I find that to be the most heartwarming part of his entire tale. The fact that his wife encouraged him to stick with his career aspirations even when he was ready to give up, and even when it was not in their family's short-term financial interest, shows the depth of her love for him.

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#94

I read the story. It is very touching. That said, I think stories like this send a very dangerous message. The reality of the matter is that for every person who stuck to their passion and ultimately "succeeded," there are thousands who lived the rest of their lives in obscurity and never "made it." When I was reading the story and Ang Le said he started taking computer science classes at the local college, I though,…

> The reality of the matter is that for every person who stuck to their passion and ultimately "succeeded," there are thousands who lived the rest of their lives in obscurity and never "made it." How do you quantify this? What is your data? I think it's easy to claim there are "thousands" who faded into obscurity, but is it truly the case? And for that innumerable set of folks that never made it . . . did they really…

>>How do you quantify this? What is your data? I think it's easy to claim there are "thousands" who faded into obscurity, but is it truly the case?

I think all those art majors who graduated from college and still work as baristas at Starbucks is sufficient evidence for my claim.

>>I've had my 7 years of fat followed by 7 years of lean. There is a very real correlation between attitude/commitment/hard work and success.

I'm a fitness buff too, and I have to say your analogy doesn't really hold. Success in fitness is very much about dedication, because your result is a direct result of the amount of work you put in. Whereas success in career is affected by a ton of other factors that are outside one's control. Primarily, luck. When there's 200 spots open for a job that 50,000 people are applying to, it doesn't matter how hard each of those 50,000 people work to get it. Only 200 of them will.

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#95
I cannot believe I wasted time reading this article.

The picture of the tape and the business card sucked me in.

I was hoping that the author will be sharing in detail the travails of Ang Lee during his early years and how he managed to pull through. Instead the author spins his own story of how Ang Lee stayed the course.

The reality of how Ang Lee felt ( 1984 - 1990 ) and kept himself motivated or if he was even worried about "success" remains a mystery and I am still curious to know more about this wonderful director and his early years...

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#96
post #10

I knew Taylor Swift growing up. Like Ang Lee, for around 6 to 8 years Taylor acted in musicals, sang at festivals, entered competitions, and recorded demos. She was bad at first (sorry Taylor!), but she kept working at it. Every day, she was writing another lyric, or taking another guitar lesson, or auditioning for another play, or switching voice teachers. The reason I knew her was that I went to school with her (sh…

> If you stick with it, you'll be successful. It doesn't matter where you come from, who your parents are, what you know, who you know, or how you look. All that is required is a choice I'm going to present a different picture of the world. I think it's a more accurate one. Not necessarily more useful. There is no such thing as a guarantee of success -- at least, for a definition of success that includes broad recogn…

Yes. There are probably some other NYU film classmates of Lee who tried just as hard and didn't make it.

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#97
post #10

I knew Taylor Swift growing up. Like Ang Lee, for around 6 to 8 years Taylor acted in musicals, sang at festivals, entered competitions, and recorded demos. She was bad at first (sorry Taylor!), but she kept working at it. Every day, she was writing another lyric, or taking another guitar lesson, or auditioning for another play, or switching voice teachers. The reason I knew her was that I went to school with her (sh…

I have the flip side of this story. I was good friends with two musicians in the early nineties. I went to their rehearsals, hung out with their friends, and saw most of their gigs when they played out in clubs. Videos, demo tapes, meetings with managers. They spent the better part of a decade trying to make it, and while they became absolutely phenomenal musicians, they never became famous -- for the simple reason that the music industry is full of amazing musicians, only a few of whom will ever become stars.

And this isn't just the case in music. I've been privileged to know several very big writers -- people who can sustain large houses and art collections on the strength of what they've written. But for every one "star" I know literally dozens of hard-working writers for whom the career has simply not clicked. The heartbreaking thing, in both writing and music, are watching the ones who almost make it, who pour all of themselves into a project and who, for whatever reason, just don't break through for their audience.

There's a thing called "sunk cost fallacy," where you've put so much of yourself into your chosen vocation that you literally can't imagine quitting. But the sad reality for most of us -- and why inspiring stories like Ang Lee's can be more damaging than helpful -- is that knowing when to quit can put you ahead of the game.

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#98
post #10

I knew Taylor Swift growing up. Like Ang Lee, for around 6 to 8 years Taylor acted in musicals, sang at festivals, entered competitions, and recorded demos. She was bad at first (sorry Taylor!), but she kept working at it. Every day, she was writing another lyric, or taking another guitar lesson, or auditioning for another play, or switching voice teachers. The reason I knew her was that I went to school with her (sh…

survivor bias. you just don't see all the other people "sticking to it" and never making it. you're discounting luck, chance, etc. one bad decision or just bad luck moment and you're toast. and for female singers - if your genes made you butt ugly, no career for you, no matter how great you sing.

Cesaria Evora is far from beauty canon, I'd say.

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#99
post #89
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that there are a ton of people that do exactly that. I live in New York and over the past year I've dated a string of actresses, some moderately successful (several year soap runs, broadway), some less so (off broadway, guerrilla theatre, etc. . .) All of them have been outrageously dedicated and talented. Still, for all of that there is no guarantee of success at the end of that multi-year struggle. I…

Exactly. I live in NYC as well, and over the past year I've dated a lot of fashion models. All of these women are gorgeous and successful (signed with major agencies - doing runway, magazine, and mixed media work). Some still struggle to make rent. Models don't have long careers, and while they're all outrageously beautiful and talented, there's no guarantee of success.

I thought the usual exit plan for models was to use their beauty and talent to attract a wealthy husband. That said, I did know one who used her modelling money to put herself through med school, but that woman was a bit of an outlier in the brains department.

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#100
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose that makes sense. So many of her songs are fuck you to ex boyfriends even in her 20s.

Well, Adele apparently got a lot of money for being dumped as well. (she also probably dumped a couple, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to be profitable for the men)

Amalgamated breakups worked out ok for Gotye, in "Somebody that I used to know".
Post reply on HN