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Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

jeffjlin.com

41–50 of 111 posts

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#41
post #22

Very inspiring, though this makes me think that we also have to worry about survivorship bias. How many people stuck to their guns, focused, worked really hard for years, and nothing ever happened for them (at least nothing close to their dreams)? Probably many, though I'm sure it's still the best way to maximize your chances of getting there; by giving up, you are assured of not making it; but even doing your best b…

How many people have worked on their own startup in the valley for 5+ years and had nothing come of it? Before I made the leap to working on a startup full time, I searched for a while for an example where 5 or more years resulted in complete failure but I couldn't find one. Not a single data point among hundreds that I read about/heard about anecdotally. I'm very curious, anyone care to share an example where they w…

In a lot of ways, I feel that my own path has had that trajectory.

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#42

It takes an inhuman amount of confidence or blind faith to convince yourself that you are good enough to make it in the film industry. To hold that belief for 6 years, while seemingly spinning your tires and growing your family is just something else. Ang Lee is something else too, though. After seeing Eat Drink Man Woman one evening, he instantly became one of my favorite directors. As a former film school graduate…

Geez, you're only a year older than he was at the start of his Herculean effort. Get writing!

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#43
post #10

I knew Taylor Swift growing up. Like Ang Lee, for around 6 to 8 years Taylor acted in musicals, sang at festivals, entered competitions, and recorded demos. She was bad at first (sorry Taylor!), but she kept working at it. Every day, she was writing another lyric, or taking another guitar lesson, or auditioning for another play, or switching voice teachers. The reason I knew her was that I went to school with her (sh…

But what no one talked about was the years she forewent hanging out with other girls in middle school, watching TV and doing her hair with girlfriends in high school.

Ah the old "I knew Taylor Swift" card, hear it all the time. I will say the funniest thing about being from Wyo is how everyone in a 50-mile radius of my town/school apparently "knew" and were best friends with Taylor Swift before she left.

But yeah I agree, certainly a lot of sacrifice. Her entire family moved to support her dream and it fortunately paid off. You don't hear about the 1,000s of other families that move to Nashville and fail. So no, sticking with it is not a guarantee for "success", not in the slightest. Depends on how you define success of course.

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#44
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good story, thanks. Though I'd say pursing a dream as a child/teenager is different from doing so as an adult with a family to support. As Ang Lee wrote in his letter/essay (someone linked it below) it felt 'undignified for a man' to have his wife bring in 100% of the income while he stayed at home. Just pointing something out that I think is a key difference. Not to take anything away from Taylor Swift as everything…

Perhaps part of the point is that having children (or choosing the noble path of actually supporting them) is also a choice. If you really, really want something bad enough, sacrifices can be made.

It helps tremendously to have whole-hearted support from someone who believes in you:

> It got so discouraging that Lee reportedly contemplated learning computer science so he could find a job during this time, but was scolded by his wife when she found out, telling him to keep his focus.

Jane (his wife) was supporting the family during those fruitless script-writing years. She believed in him perhaps even more than he believed in himself.

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#45
post #37
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can give you two I know about personally. An ISP that couldn't afford the transition to a post dial-up world, sold its user base off for a pittance. Not really worth the six years. The other was a fairly niche data processing startup in a several billion dollar niche. 10 years in and they missed the boat migrating their front end to the browser and moving their back end off of windows. Couldn't even sell off the so…

The companies failed, but did the founders end up worse off than if they had been random engineers at Microsoft?

I guess define "worse off". But I would say in both cases they ended up about the same...but I will grant they learned lots of intangibles from the experiences.

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#46
Screenwriter Terry Rossio (Aladdin, Shrek, Pirates Of The Caribbean series) has a long running website on screenwriting. His site reminds me a lot of PG, actually, since he has a lot of essays thinking about the concepts behind the movie business.

He's talked there before about the time he spent preparing to become a screenwriter. His initial plan was to take 10 years to learn the craft.

http://www.wordplayer.com/forums/forulttrs/lt18.That.Big.Bre...

"Since Ted and I were going to be working and studying screenwriting for ten years, that took some of the pressure off. It doesn't make sense to kick yourself after failing at something for four years, when the path you're on is designed to take ten. This allowed a period of time to undertake an analysis and exploration of the business, the techniques, the craft, the history, etc. Step by step, from style to format to character to concept to theme, etc. In other words, we gave ourselves room to practice."

He's also got a fantastic column on why you should give up at screenwriting.

I think a lot of people here can apply it to startups.

http://www.wordplayer.com/columns/wp34.Throw.in.the.Towel.ht...

"That's what I'm really trying to do here (and you're smart enough to see it). And I'm not quitting. Oh, no, I'm not even warmed up. This is important, and I'm gonna give it my best shot.

Because what's at stake here is pretty damn big... oh, just, let's say, your life. A wasted life, potentially, or at least wasting the best years of your life. Days, months, years of effort endlessly trying to do something that you'll never be able to do well. And how many sunsets will you miss before you finally give up? How many walks in the moonlight are forever gone? How much laughter with friends are you willing to sacrifice? How many times will the kids not get the attention they deserve because 'Daddy's trying to write something' that nobody wants to read?

Oh. Gee. Did that one get to you a little? Feel a little twinge in the pit of your stomach?

Good."

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#47
post #45
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The companies failed, but did the founders end up worse off than if they had been random engineers at Microsoft?

I guess define "worse off". But I would say in both cases they ended up about the same...but I will grant they learned lots of intangibles from the experiences.

How did the end up about the same? Were they paying themselves the same salaries they would have been getting at Microsoft the whole time? Were they living more frugally than they would have been had they been working at Microsoft?

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#48
post #10

I knew Taylor Swift growing up. Like Ang Lee, for around 6 to 8 years Taylor acted in musicals, sang at festivals, entered competitions, and recorded demos. She was bad at first (sorry Taylor!), but she kept working at it. Every day, she was writing another lyric, or taking another guitar lesson, or auditioning for another play, or switching voice teachers. The reason I knew her was that I went to school with her (sh…

> If you stick with it, you'll be successful. It doesn't matter where you come from, who your parents are, what you know, who you know, or how you look. All that is required is a choice I'm going to present a different picture of the world. I think it's a more accurate one. Not necessarily more useful. There is no such thing as a guarantee of success -- at least, for a definition of success that includes broad recogn…

> There is no such thing as a guarantee of success.

It's true there is no guarantee of success. But if you quit early there would be only guarantee failure.

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#49
post #43
post #10

I knew Taylor Swift growing up. Like Ang Lee, for around 6 to 8 years Taylor acted in musicals, sang at festivals, entered competitions, and recorded demos. She was bad at first (sorry Taylor!), but she kept working at it. Every day, she was writing another lyric, or taking another guitar lesson, or auditioning for another play, or switching voice teachers. The reason I knew her was that I went to school with her (sh…

But what no one talked about was the years she forewent hanging out with other girls in middle school, watching TV and doing her hair with girlfriends in high school. Ah the old "I knew Taylor Swift" card, hear it all the time. I will say the funniest thing about being from Wyo is how everyone in a 50-mile radius of my town/school apparently "knew" and were best friends with Taylor Swift before she left. But yeah I a…

Ha. Not from there, but every Icelander I've met "knew" Bjork, but that may be because it's half the size of Wyoming and is much, much more isolated.

Re: Ang Lee and the uncertainty of success

#50
iamwill, this is a really awesome post. I shared it on FB and Tweeted it. I wanted to add one thing:

My sister won the Miss Hong Kong Pageant a few years back and is one of the top celebrities in Asia. One thing I learned from her was that success is all about determination, focus, and a lot of work; talent is in fact overrated.

For her, there have been ups (winning the pageant she was at the top), and downs (a year after winning the pageant, she was given the standard actress contract and was basically at the bottom), then ups again (she had to work her way up to the 'acting' totem pole).

Success in my view is what you make of it as well. Dave Chappelle talked about it when his dad confronted him about wanting to be an entertainer. His response was if he could make a living comparable to a normal white collar job (I think he used the example of 50K a year), then he felt in his mind that he achieved success. It's probably why he went to Africa! (Unless you believe in the Oprah Conspiracy lol).

DHH and the guys at 37signals have it right in my mind too. There is a huge difference being -10K in debt and having 10K in savings. Another huge difference between 10K in savings and having 250K in savings. However, there really isn't much difference between 1 Million and 10 Million and above (First Class vs. private jet... one Mazeratti vs. 5 Mazeratti's). For the majority of us, success is hitting that 250K mark. At that point, you don't need to worry about rent, food, bills... etc.

Lastly, a piece of advice I learned from Derek Sivers was what do you want? He broke it down to Fame, Fortune, Freedom, excitement, quiet, comfort.. To some all they want is Fame. To others, all they want is the money. His advice was to choose only one and go for it. A nice little byproduct is that you might get the Fortune and end up getting the Freedom as well. But know what you want and set yourself to achieve that goal!

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