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Hunter-gatherers introduced fish to a mountain lake 7000 years ago

newscientist.com

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Re: Hunter-gatherers introduced fish to a mountain lake 7000 years ago

#91

Post by codethief »

fractallyte wrote: post #3

An alternative vector: "cloud seeding" ( https://www.theguardian.com/science/2004/sep/09/science.rese... ) Charles Fort collected numerous data for his famous "The Book of the Damned" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_the_Damned

From the The Guardian article:

> As well as living matter, inorganic substances also crash to earth, including seeds, stones and sand. However, these pale in comparison to the mighty ice blocks. January 2000 saw several chunks weighing up to four kilograms each fall on Spain, but they're dwarfed by the 200kg titans that struck Brazil in 1995.

Wat. Does anyone have a reference for the Brazil one? Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megacryometeor ) mentions nothing. Megacryometeors: Distribution on Earth and Current Research (2006)[0] says:

> In Campinas and Itapira, Brazil, two huge megacryometeors of 50 and 200 kg fell in 1997; the atmosphericisotopic signature of both specimens wasunequivocally confirmed (8). Finally, on 21 July 2004, a huge mass of ice weighingapproximately 400 kg fell very close to a 15-year-old girl in Toledo, Spain.

400kg! Unfortunately, no reference is given for this one and for the one in Brazil they refer to https://cepagri.unicamp.br/gelo/gelo.html, which – like many other of their references – produces a 404 nowadays. And, of course, the page hasn't gotten preserved by the Internet Archive, either. :(

[0]: https://www.jstor.org/stable/4315744 , PDF download available on https://www.researchgate.net/publication/6561843_Megacryomet...

Re: Hunter-gatherers introduced fish to a mountain lake 7000 years ago

#92

Post by noelwelsh »

Theodores wrote: post #67
m463 wrote: post #2

> That is the only possible explanation for how fish could have populated isolated mountain lakes isn't that a common question? "How do fish appear in landlocked lakes/ponds/etc"? After digging a pond and letting it fill with rainwater/groundwater, fish appear. I don't think its because people carried them there. (don't really know the common answer though)

Before we developed a taste for fish, marine life was far more abundant, particularly in rivers. There are rivers that we consider to be in good health today that have a fraction of the original species. For example, the Thames in London was once full of eels, nowadays an eel in the Thames poses a mystery as to 'how it got there'. By full, that means not being able to see the bottom of the river due to the amount of…

A few comments on the previous abundance of cod, from https://www.sciencehistory.org/stories/magazine/a-tragedy-wi...

In 1873, French novelist Alexandre Dumas wrote that if every egg reached maturity, within three years “you could walk across the Atlantic dryshod on the backs of cod.” In 1885, the Canadian Ministry of Agriculture said it was not only impossible to exhaust the cod supply, but even to make a noticeable dent in it. “Unless the order of nature is overthrown, for centuries to come our fisheries will continue to be fertile,” the ministry declared.

Humans find a way: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse_of_the_Atlantic_north...

Re: Hunter-gatherers introduced fish to a mountain lake 7000 years ago

#93

Post by dylan604 »

austin-cheney wrote: post #77
giancarlostoro wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Birds can drop fish after they've captured them. Not longer than a year now, we were visiting my wife's family, and me and my father in law got to Walmart there was a dead fish in the front, but when we mentioned it to my wife who got there before us (separate cars) she said it was struggling for life when they saw it, I don't think there was a lake nearby enough, but I wouldn't be surprised if birds have accidentall…

More likely is that birds move fish between bodies of water because of fish eggs they carry on their bodies. This is how most bodies of water become supremely populated in Texas. In Texas all ground water sources, other than 1 lake on the far east side, are created by people in recent decades and almost all of these bodies are full of fish that did not get there on their own.

You're discounting the effort of Fish & Wildlife Services:

https://tpwd.texas.gov/fishboat/fish/management/stocking/

Re: Hunter-gatherers introduced fish to a mountain lake 7000 years ago

#95

Post by Graziano_M »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #42
m463 wrote: post #2

> That is the only possible explanation for how fish could have populated isolated mountain lakes isn't that a common question? "How do fish appear in landlocked lakes/ponds/etc"? After digging a pond and letting it fill with rainwater/groundwater, fish appear. I don't think its because people carried them there. (don't really know the common answer though)

Birds can drop fish after they've captured them. Not longer than a year now, we were visiting my wife's family, and me and my father in law got to Walmart there was a dead fish in the front, but when we mentioned it to my wife who got there before us (separate cars) she said it was struggling for life when they saw it, I don't think there was a lake nearby enough, but I wouldn't be surprised if birds have accidentall…

I once found a recently-dead minnow in the outfield where I was playing software. That was a weird one.

Re: Hunter-gatherers introduced fish to a mountain lake 7000 years ago

#96

Post by [deleted] »

imtringued wrote: post #65
Kye wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans were shaping their environments to produce food long before they plowed fields. Hunter-gatherers didn't just hunt and gather willy-nilly, picking up whatever they found, oblivious to how it got there.

Yeah, you have to consider that when you're living in nature you actually need to identify the plants that are edible so you can't actually just eat everything you find even if you could eat it in theory. So if you wanted to gather plant food how do you make sure that the food you find is edible? It's quite simple. If you know a plant is edible you take the seeds and you carry them with you and broadcast them all ove…

[deleted]

Re: Hunter-gatherers introduced fish to a mountain lake 7000 years ago

#97

Post by [deleted] »

spwa4 wrote: post #32
orsorna wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great point until the end. None of your descriptions imply a lack of morality for living isolated from a greater civilization. If anything, such small societies inhabit a neutral position, in that they don't care, which is something you already stated. I think the only people arguing that the North Sentinelese are immoral are religious, for instance (hence why most attempts to visit are done by missions). The general…

They don't care and "respond strongly" to insults or territorial disputes (which involve both actual land, men, women, and children), to the point that sometimes dozens of people die in the resulting fight. They kill because of insults (which mostly involves sex). Oh and they do quite a bit for alcohol. They'll fuck visitors, just to see if their next kid is white (but, of course, if you go along with that you lose w…

[deleted]

Re: Hunter-gatherers introduced fish to a mountain lake 7000 years ago

#98

Post by readthenotes1 »

Graziano_M wrote: post #95
giancarlostoro wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Birds can drop fish after they've captured them. Not longer than a year now, we were visiting my wife's family, and me and my father in law got to Walmart there was a dead fish in the front, but when we mentioned it to my wife who got there before us (separate cars) she said it was struggling for life when they saw it, I don't think there was a lake nearby enough, but I wouldn't be surprised if birds have accidentall…

I once found a recently-dead minnow in the outfield where I was playing software. That was a weird one.

I've heard of remote work before but having you play software in the outfield seems a little extreme...

Re: Hunter-gatherers introduced fish to a mountain lake 7000 years ago

#100

Post by vitally3643 »

soperj wrote: post #55
BurningFrog wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see how the evolutionary advantage of such hardened eggs would be huge!

I would think that would lead to a lot of inbred fish

This tends to simply not be that much of a problem for "lower" species.
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