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Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

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Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#91

Post by koonsolo »

graemep wrote: post #65
EdiX wrote: post #55

We've known this since the Snowden leaks 13 years ago. In a couple of years there will probably be a president in the US that will be more palatable for the european political class and we'll all be able to go back to pretending this doesn't happen. After all the EU is too compromised energetically, militarily, industrially, burocratically and democratically to ever achieve independence. Talking about digital soverei…

Downvotes for stating a reasonable, and probably correct argument. Europe's biggest problem (I do not mean just the EU, I mean everyone from the UK to Russia) is that it is in denial about its decline, weakness and irrelevance to the rest of the world. The UK is a bit of an exception in being aware of it and actually talking about it. That is about it.

We Europeans are very well aware that we need to strengthen our position in the world, both economically and militarily. I would say we are making progress on both. China is not happy with recent EU decision for example.

Let's see how far China and US will go when access to the European consumer market will be resticted.

Let's see how well China and US can adapt to modern drone warfare when Ukrainians have the expertise and can share it with the rest of Europe.

We have to step up our game for sure, and everyone in Europe knows it. But the race is definitely not lost yet.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#93

Post by EdiX »

vrganj wrote: post #84
graemep wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Downvotes for stating a reasonable, and probably correct argument. Europe's biggest problem (I do not mean just the EU, I mean everyone from the UK to Russia) is that it is in denial about its decline, weakness and irrelevance to the rest of the world. The UK is a bit of an exception in being aware of it and actually talking about it. That is about it.

The EU in just the past year has signed deals with Latin America and India in addition to the already existing ones with South Korea, Canada, Japan etc. It has positioned itself at the center of the world's largest free trade zone. It's managed to replace US contributions to Ukraine and looks like its in the process of bloodying Russia's nose. Reports of its demise are greatly exaggerated.

Free trade didn't stop Russia from invading Ukraine and it didn't convert China into a democracy. And the india's deal is saddling us with more third world immigration that will only make things worse.

It seems to me that this is still all the EU not keeping up with where the world is going. We started drafting the mercosur agreement 27 years ago so we finalize it and call it a victory, all that it's probably going to do is precipitate the demise of our domestic agribusiness, so that farmers won't be able to cause a ruckus in Brussels anymore.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#94

Post by beloch »

If a politically stable nation with a good international reputation were to guarantee government respect for data privacy for data centres housed on its soil and run by its companies, that nation could become the Swiss bankers of data.

Rolling your own "digital sovereignty" is not going to be cheap for most nations, and many other nations simply won't be trusted by anyone, least of all their own citizens.

It's a bit flabbergasting that U.S. tech companies didn't see this coming years ago and lobby hard for the U.S. to repeal anti-privacy legislation like the CLOUD act. Their lunch is sitting out in the open, completely unwatched, waiting to be eaten by somebody else and it's far too late to do anything about it.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#95

Post by pjc50 »

jdw64 wrote: post #10

It seems similar conversations are happening in Europe as well. Originally, Korea is a country where the 'pro US faction' (the faction that believes Korea should be subordinate to the US) is very strong by default. The US had a very strong influence on the establishment of the Korean government, and if you look back at Korea's history, it has always been about finding a country to serve. It feels like siding with the…

South Korea does seem to be somewhere where the people are more acutely aware that they are a new democracy, and also that there are a number of horrific fascist incidents in recent memory ("tank day") which remind people that it matters.

It seems Korea lacks the "cheat code" for fascism: an ethnic minority population on which all evil can be blamed.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#97

Post by ForHackernews »

j_maffe wrote: post #79
icantevenhold wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of sums up my sentiment. All throughout my adult life the US (for all its apparent faults) was to me a shining example of progress and humanity. It was the best large scale implementation of human rights, laws, and democracy. Sure it was far from perfect but “as good as it gets, for now” Became very disillusioned with that image of the US in the last couple of years. Maybe it’s always been like that - but t…

> was to me a shining example of progress and humanity. Which country was the US bombing to the ground at this period you're reminiscing on?

American soldiers committed the Mỹ Lai Massacre.

American soldiers trained their weapons on those Americans to halt the killing.

America has always contained multitudes, but chose to see the best in itself and the world saw it reflected in that light.

One of the most shocking things to me was visiting Vietnam and going to the Museum of American War Crimes in Ho Chi Minh City and almost the first thing you see walking in is the words of the US Declaration of Independence in enormous letters, printed across an entire wall: "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."

They are throwing America's own principles back in its face, castigating America for behaving in a way that is un-American. The world believed in what America claims it believes.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#98

Post by andy_ppp »

brador wrote: post #78
andy_ppp wrote: post #27

Is anyone building (open source?) G-Suite - I’m honestly tired of paying Google money and I think everyone needs independence.

No one made the easy pickings of Facebook clone, Reddit clone or Twitter clone for insane profits. You really think someone will make a gsuite? The person making project X days are over. The energy and drive is extinguished from humanity. Ambition is all that’s left.

These things go in cycles, we’ll be back - or potentially something better will come along.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#99

Post by ochrist »

la_oveja wrote: post #24
touwer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, yes. Sure. Proof?

the danish were one of the strongest Chat Control promovers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chat_Control

Maybe the Danish government but not the Danish people.

Re: Digital Sovereignty Becomes an Imperative as the US Reads Dutch Emails

#100

Post by apexalpha »

Schlagbohrer wrote: post #96

Europe and many other nations will look back on the early 21st century and wonder how they ever thought it was a good idea to willingly give up so much soverignity to foreign powers

Europe was beaten down, broke and simply kaput.

Then it was split in a camp dependent on the US and a camp dependent on the USSR.

Both the US and USSR spent decades keeping us together but definitely not united.

This runs deep in European political culture.

Until 2 years ago many Dutch people had more in common and more trust in Americans than . If only because half of them go broke once every generation.

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