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Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

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Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#91

Post by felixgallo »

LPisGood wrote: post #58
SilverElfin wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VTI lists fast even before these recent changes as I recall. So it’s more vulnerable, not less.

It may list fast, but it covers many more securities from what I understand so it’s insulated. I think the fact is that any broad market ETF is gonna own at least some piece of a $1 trillion company.

well that's the problem, right? There is no justification for a trillion dollar Elon Musk valuation. And he and his investors know this. That's why they're trying to change the rules to dump the stock while it's irrational on every investor in the world. If they really believed in the value of the company, would they be bribing people to scam the index funds?

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#92

Post by Danox »

nolok wrote: post #20
SilverElfin wrote: post #7

It’s obviously a scam. First xai acquires failing Twitter and then SpaceX acquires xai? At a made up valuation number that’s too high? The voting structure of SpaceX prevents Elon from ever being held accountable. Not to mention that the revenue and profits are simply not enough to justify the desired value.

Merging the failling companies into the other ones is the usual Elon thing, Solar City didn't get acqui-merged into Tesla for its great result. It's not a "scam" in the traditionnal sense, it's riding the bubble while it's there, stock value is "supposed" to be about the company performance and potential but technically it doesn't have to be, it's about what some people are willing to pay for it (the stock, not the p…

It’s a scam and the party will be over when Tesla finally bites the dust, and it will. The worldwide trajectory is not in their favor.

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#94

Post by epistasis »

fluidcruft wrote: post #14

It's really concerning given how the indexes are changing rules to fast-track SpaceX being forced into index funds. S&P is also working on updates to S&P 500 to force it down everyone's throats quickly and algorithmically.

I'm usually a Boglehead, with some exceptions, and one exception I'd love is some sort of trade that would eliminate my exposure to SpaceX for the next few years. I'm sure there's some combo of options that would do it.

Probably finding an ESG-focused ETF would do it. ESG basically meant "good governance, we follow laws" which translated into better governed public companies that therefore had better returns, as one would expect. Really weird how it was politicized into something entirely different...

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#95

Post by capitainenemo »

Danox wrote: post #88
hparadiz wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current SpaceX is in a far better financial and operational position than 10 years ago. By an order of magnitude. 90% of all payload to orbit right now is SpaceX alone. Starlink is profitable all on it's own. Right now. And they are just now picking up steam. American Airlines just signed onto Starlink just last week. This company is most likely gonna be the Coca-Cola of transportation between celestial bodies in…

SpaceX is completely dependent upon the government. If said government decides to move on then what long-term and they will move on because of China, Russia and the EU but mostly because of China. This brief dalliance in private enterprise in space will not last long-term.

Only a fifth of spacex revenue is currently from government contracts, a percentage that they forecast will continue to trend downwards.

(not to say that isn't a huge risk if it disappeared, it's just far from "completely dependent")

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#96

Post by [deleted] »

SilverElfin wrote: post #45
stouset wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can sidestep this entirely with a total-market fund like VTSAX/VTI, which hold the entire market and should be more resistant to being gamed. They’re free-float adjusted so entities like SpaceX are valued only by what’s available on public markets. And Vanguard (and its funds) are owned by its investors, which makes it seem implausible that the rules would be rewritten in a way that would damage investors.

VTI lists fast even before these recent changes as I recall. So it’s more vulnerable, not less.

[deleted]

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#97

Post by ambicapter »

lokar wrote: post #69
stouset wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VTI won’t really be affected by this. It’s based on the total market and not artificially limited to a small number of large companies. Plus it’s free-float adjusted so only the publicly-tradable portion of SpaceX is considered when weighting its inclusion so it will constitute only a small portion of the fund. There is also a (small) mandatory delay period which I don’t recall between it going public and it becoming…

The index they use is altering the rules. I complained to my account rep, he agreed it was not great and is asking the fund mgmt what the plan is. I doubt there is a lot they can do.

VTI

> Seeks to track the performance of the CRSP US Total Market Index.

The index that is changing its rules is the NASDAQ100, commonly referred to as the NASDAQ, although NASDAQ is also the name of the exchange.

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#98

Post by xenospn »

epistasis wrote: post #94
fluidcruft wrote: post #14

It's really concerning given how the indexes are changing rules to fast-track SpaceX being forced into index funds. S&P is also working on updates to S&P 500 to force it down everyone's throats quickly and algorithmically.

I'm usually a Boglehead, with some exceptions, and one exception I'd love is some sort of trade that would eliminate my exposure to SpaceX for the next few years. I'm sure there's some combo of options that would do it. Probably finding an ESG-focused ETF would do it. ESG basically meant "good governance, we follow laws" which translated into better governed public companies that therefore had better returns, as one…

Stock markets are ruled by hype and fomo. Good corporate governance has little to do with returns, unfortunately.

Re: Danish Pension Blacklists SpaceX over 'Catastrophic Governance'

#100

Post by epistasis »

xenospn wrote: post #98
epistasis wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm usually a Boglehead, with some exceptions, and one exception I'd love is some sort of trade that would eliminate my exposure to SpaceX for the next few years. I'm sure there's some combo of options that would do it. Probably finding an ESG-focused ETF would do it. ESG basically meant "good governance, we follow laws" which translated into better governed public companies that therefore had better returns, as one…

Stock markets are ruled by hype and fomo. Good corporate governance has little to do with returns, unfortunately.

Short term gains are hype and fomo, but if you're holding index funds long like I am, then returns have a lot more to do with performance. And given the lack of hype around ESG, it seems like an exceptional time to buy in to it.
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