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What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

jacquescorbytuech.com

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Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#91

Post by nurumaik »

pants2 wrote: post #31
lanerobertlane wrote: post #24

If my phone interrupts me, it should either mean someone genuinely needs my attention right now or it should not be disrupting me at all. That's my notification set up. Apps allowed to receive push notifications Phone, Messages, Whatsapp, Apple Health, [brand] bank. That concludes the list. There is no reason any other app needs to be able to instantly ping me. Most apps are not notifying you because something matter…

The biggest problem are apps that do both. For example, I want Uber to notify me when my driver has arrived, but I don't want it to notify me when they have a special 10% discount on my next 5 rides. It's not straightforward to block one but not the other.

Apple should add "promotional notifications" section to iOS, then ban everyone who don't put their marketing bs into that category

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#92

Post by LtWorf »

nurumaik wrote: post #91
pants2 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest problem are apps that do both. For example, I want Uber to notify me when my driver has arrived, but I don't want it to notify me when they have a special 10% discount on my next 5 rides. It's not straightforward to block one but not the other.

Apple should add "promotional notifications" section to iOS, then ban everyone who don't put their marketing bs into that category

Apple isn't your friend though.

edit: downvote all you want. Fact remains that there is no way currently to block advertisement notifications and no disincentives for those who use them.

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#93

Post by sparselogic »

iamacyborg wrote: post #16
sparselogic wrote: post #12

> Over fifteen years the channel has been rebuilt around one assumption: the receiver's attention is a scarce resource the platform is obliged to defend. … As a sender you are on the wrong side of that assumption, whichever way the control moved. Fascinating how the author openly frames the situation as the sender and receiver’s interests being opposed.

A fairly uncharitable read, I’d argue it states that the platform is acting on the platform’s interest, not the user’s.

Speaking from the standpoint of a user: I consider my attention a scarce resource that needs defending.

To the extent a platform has the same assumption, its interests are aligned with mine.

To the extent a sender does not have this assumption, I want the platform to defend my attention on my behalf.

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#94

Post by mmoskal »

Analemma_ wrote: post #40
pants2 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest problem are apps that do both. For example, I want Uber to notify me when my driver has arrived, but I don't want it to notify me when they have a special 10% discount on my next 5 rides. It's not straightforward to block one but not the other.

And the worst part is that Apple could fix this in a heartbeat. Uber is straightforwardly in violation of App Store policies about "no advertising in push notifications", but a) they're too big to fail and b) Apple advertises via push notifications all the fucking time, so they have no leg to stand on here. It's infuriating that the one thing the App Store monopoly could be useful for isn't even actually used in prac…

I believe the App Store policy is you have to have a setting to disable ads. And Uber actually has it (though it has 8 different channels or so, apparently "Uber teen accounts" marketing was added recently).

I used the setting and am not getting Uber ads (only Uber ride notifications).

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#95

Post by greyface- »

TingPing wrote: post #66
losvedir wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell me use iOS without telling me you do. Android has separate notification channel toggles, so I've turned off the marketing ones. I was shocked and aghast when I spent a year trying to use an iPhone that it didn't do this. Part of the reason I went back to my trusty Pixels.

While iOS doesn’t do this at the OS level I’ve never seen an app that didn’t have these options. I assumed it’s required by Apple.

Lots of iOS apps have the option, but ignore it and send you push ads anyway. Apple may require it to be present during app review, but they don't seem to enforce that it's used correctly.

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#96

Post by verelo »

pants2 wrote: post #31
lanerobertlane wrote: post #24

If my phone interrupts me, it should either mean someone genuinely needs my attention right now or it should not be disrupting me at all. That's my notification set up. Apps allowed to receive push notifications Phone, Messages, Whatsapp, Apple Health, [brand] bank. That concludes the list. There is no reason any other app needs to be able to instantly ping me. Most apps are not notifying you because something matter…

The biggest problem are apps that do both. For example, I want Uber to notify me when my driver has arrived, but I don't want it to notify me when they have a special 10% discount on my next 5 rides. It's not straightforward to block one but not the other.

Yep exactly this. The app developers are the problem, but Apple and Google are not helping here.

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#97

Post by Esophagus4 »

pcl wrote: post #67
pants2 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest problem are apps that do both. For example, I want Uber to notify me when my driver has arrived, but I don't want it to notify me when they have a special 10% discount on my next 5 rides. It's not straightforward to block one but not the other.

For me, it's quite straightforward. If an app makes an unsolicited spammy push, it's notifications-off. No exceptions.

Yes. I’d rather live with the temporary inconvenience of needing to open the Uber app to check the status of my ride once a month than wade through notification spam on an intermittent basis forever.

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#98

Post by throwway120385 »

swatcoder wrote: post #59
ornornor wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know about uber specifically but most of the apps I use have a separate toggle for things like marketing. Maybe it’s an EU thing?

The modern pattern in anywhere that allows it is to have dozens of ambiguously labeled toggles for nominally different notification channels, described only by a minimally brief and maximally ambiguous label. All begin as active until the user, in frustration, goes in and exhausts themselves disabling individual options without being sure which one is going to turn off the one single thing they actually want to be no…

After all we wouldn't want the user to miss out on our promotion of 10% off your next refrigerator. They bought a refrigerator from us just 6 months ago, after all!

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#99

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

lanerobertlane wrote: post #24

If my phone interrupts me, it should either mean someone genuinely needs my attention right now or it should not be disrupting me at all. That's my notification set up. Apps allowed to receive push notifications Phone, Messages, Whatsapp, Apple Health, [brand] bank. That concludes the list. There is no reason any other app needs to be able to instantly ping me. Most apps are not notifying you because something matter…

Yeah, this entire article is pretty transparent that it's from the sender perspective, and worried about platforms taking over "sender control".

Who is he kidding? The vast majority of apps have absolutely proven they can't be trusted to respect your attention. From my perspective, the more roadblocks the platforms put between unnecessary notifications and my phone, the better. And I don't think Apple or Google are some sort of heroes here, but I do believe their incentives better align with mine than the marketing department of some app I was forced to download because I bought a ticket once or something like that.

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#100

Post by Esophagus4 »

iamacyborg wrote: post #76
unglaublich wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one willingly says "yes" to advertisements, but people will say "yes" to important-updates(-and-advertisements).

Hundreds of thousands of people declaratively opt into receiving marketing with informed consent on a daily basis. Just because you don’t does not mean other people are like you.

Yes… seeing my wife’s email inbox is mind blowing.

Maybe she didn’t opt in, but she will never unsubscribe from anything.

Emails from every site she’s ever shopped at.

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