Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Playdate’s handheld changed how Duke University teaches game design

news.play.date

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 120 posts

Re: Playdate’s handheld changed how Duke University teaches game design

#91

Post by Jach »

oulipo2 wrote: post #89
Jach wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the intention, sure, and as long as prospective Masters students know that's what they're getting into and paying for, and are looking forward to it, then it's fine or whatever. But it still strikes me as a silly constraint, just as it would be to require an in-house engine that sucks, or requiring students to develop for some old Nintendo hardware, or requiring students to fit everything in under 96k.[0] Anyo…

No, because the goal of the university is to teach students to think. Not necessarily just to "acquire the skills to apply in industry". Constraints are great for that. So is teaching them assembly, even though most people no longer directly code in ASM. But a constrained language that's close-to-the-metal gives them an interesting view of how computing really works, etc So I'd say it's actually much better for a cla…

This is part of a 2 year Masters program focused on Game Design, Development & Innovation, costing a student $113,000 to pursue. If a student enrolls in it without already having learned how to think, this is not the program that is going to teach that. Surely any competent school can teach students how to think within the first year, if they do not already know how to think, leaving the rest of the years (and any Masters or PhD programs) able to assume that the students already know how to think and thus save the time to teach actual content.

If students sign up and pay for a class you teach called "Data Structures & Algorithms", and you just read from Hamming's book every lecture and don't actually attempt to teach any data structures and algorithms, expect to not have a teaching job for long.

Re: Playdate’s handheld changed how Duke University teaches game design

#92

Post by oulipo2 »

Jach wrote: post #91
oulipo2 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because the goal of the university is to teach students to think. Not necessarily just to "acquire the skills to apply in industry". Constraints are great for that. So is teaching them assembly, even though most people no longer directly code in ASM. But a constrained language that's close-to-the-metal gives them an interesting view of how computing really works, etc So I'd say it's actually much better for a cla…

This is part of a 2 year Masters program focused on Game Design, Development & Innovation, costing a student $113,000 to pursue. If a student enrolls in it without already having learned how to think, this is not the program that is going to teach that. Surely any competent school can teach students how to think within the first year, if they do not already know how to think, leaving the rest of the years (and any Ma…

Learning to code for Unity is the easy part, learning to build great architecture, optimize resources, create a creative game is the hard stuff

Re: Playdate’s handheld changed how Duke University teaches game design

#93

Post by prmoustache »

galleywest200 wrote: post #30
socalgal2 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, you could get a similar experience (for some definition of similar) with Pico-8 which is also a constrained system. Even better, the creator supports educators super cheap https://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php?page=schools Yea, it's not custom hardware, but you can share your creations with everyone since it runs on Web, Mac, Windows, Linux, Android, iOS and there are lots of cheaper devices that will run it if…

Also mentioning Lexaloffle’s most recent project the Picotron which is a fantasy workstation instead of just a console. https://www.lexaloffle.com/picotron.php With no technical upper limit on file size (as well as being able to export for other OSes) you could, in theory, publish a full game from this.

Isn't it a bit like uxn at that point?

Re: Playdate’s handheld changed how Duke University teaches game design

#94

Post by 999900000999 »

latexr wrote: post #63
fn-mote wrote: post #21

Re: price point HN readers who can write a console game before bedtime are not the target audience. A handheld device that Just Works and creates an authentic experience is worth a lot. For a college class, a $200 textbook isn’t out of line (the ones people still buy…), which makes this a very reasonable investment in one’s education. Are there other, cheaper routes? Of course. For an introduction? Fewer, and nobody…

That’s a very USA-centric view. 200$ for a textbook which will (often) only be used for a couple of chapters and was written by the professor shouldn’t be normal anywhere. The price of that book could pay for months (and in some cases years) of tuition in EU countries. As someone from the EU who was always curious about the Playdate, I never got one because the price becomes even more absurd once you factor shipping…

Tuition at Duke is 70k per year.

Buying a game system is the least of your problems there

Re: Playdate’s handheld changed how Duke University teaches game design

#95

Post by Jach »

oulipo2 wrote: post #92
Jach wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is part of a 2 year Masters program focused on Game Design, Development & Innovation, costing a student $113,000 to pursue. If a student enrolls in it without already having learned how to think, this is not the program that is going to teach that. Surely any competent school can teach students how to think within the first year, if they do not already know how to think, leaving the rest of the years (and any Ma…

Learning to code for Unity is the easy part, learning to build great architecture, optimize resources, create a creative game is the hard stuff

If it's so easy, all the better. You can learn to build great architecture, optimize resources, and create a creative game all while also using Unity. There are additional bonuses to this beyond the pure knowledge too.

Re: Playdate’s handheld changed how Duke University teaches game design

#96

Post by latexr »

999900000999 wrote: post #94
latexr wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a very USA-centric view. 200$ for a textbook which will (often) only be used for a couple of chapters and was written by the professor shouldn’t be normal anywhere. The price of that book could pay for months (and in some cases years) of tuition in EU countries. As someone from the EU who was always curious about the Playdate, I never got one because the price becomes even more absurd once you factor shipping…

Tuition at Duke is 70k per year. Buying a game system is the least of your problems there

Again, that’s not the discussion. See my reply over two hours ago:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47804719

Additionally, the page says:

> more than 50 Playdates have been provided to students

Provided. To me that doesn’t seem like the students are paying for them. From other comments in the thread of former Duke students using iPods, it seems Duke lends you the hardware.

Furthermore, “tuition is expensive so buying expensive hardware is the least of your problems” is not a good argument. There’s a reason people in the USA drown in student debt. Whatever you can save is good.

Re: Playdate’s handheld changed how Duke University teaches game design

#97

Post by wat10000 »

globalchatads wrote: post #74

The constraint-first angle matters more than people give it credit for. A 1-bit screen and a handful of buttons forces students to stop hiding behind art and sound, and actually solve readability and mechanics. Honestly surprised more programs do not do this instead of dropping students into Unity on day one.

It's very difficult to overcome the push to teach the tools that will be used (or that out-of-touch people think will be used) professionally. We see the same issue in non-game programming where a lot of places start by teaching Java, which is an atrocious language for a beginner to start with, but it's not chosen for its suitability for learning programming principles, but because it's a big-name professional language.

Re: Playdate’s handheld changed how Duke University teaches game design

#98

Post by wat10000 »

Jach wrote: post #53
fragmede wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anna has an archive for students who can't afford books.

I love Anna but it's also a poor school that doesn't have its own library that has at least a few copies of every textbook used by classes + inter-library loans. Can be a nice way to make friends by sharing a physical book to study and do exercises from in a shared workspace.

In this era of abundance, it's ridiculous for students to be sharing textbooks.

Re: Playdate’s handheld changed how Duke University teaches game design

#99

Post by oulipo2 »

Jach wrote: post #95
oulipo2 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning to code for Unity is the easy part, learning to build great architecture, optimize resources, create a creative game is the hard stuff

If it's so easy, all the better. You can learn to build great architecture, optimize resources, and create a creative game all while also using Unity. There are additional bonuses to this beyond the pure knowledge too.

I mean it's all there in the text... it's for the introductory class "in an introductory class focused on game design fundamentals, students can’t afford a long learning curve."

Re: Playdate’s handheld changed how Duke University teaches game design

#100

Post by shimman »

latexr wrote: post #96
999900000999 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tuition at Duke is 70k per year. Buying a game system is the least of your problems there

Again, that’s not the discussion. See my reply over two hours ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47804719 Additionally, the page says: > more than 50 Playdates have been provided to students Provided . To me that doesn’t seem like the students are paying for them. From other comments in the thread of former Duke students using iPods, it seems Duke lends you the hardware. Furthermore, “tuition is expensive so b…

They aren't drowning in debt because of supplies, they're drowning in debt because both the federal + state governments have stopped investing in education since the GFC in 2008. That plus a bloated admin body that cares about itself more than its literal mission (providing education + research).
Post reply on HN