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Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

geohot.github.io

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Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#91

Post by wisty »

avaer wrote: post #40

It's easy to create value for others and not worry about returns when you have enough money to not worry. Unfortunately for most people, there's plenty of companies willing to take the returns and leave you paycheck to paycheck. That's literally what they are optimized to do. I don't even disagree with the ideal, but I think a prerequisite step to this philosophy is UBI.

"Don't worry about money" is something a lot of companies do. They can just try to create value first, then look for profits later (albeit often though "enshitification").

This bias towards creating value makes them more moral than mere mortals, creating huge amounts of innovation and surplus value.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#92

Post by borski »

nathancroissant wrote: post #76

As others have said, it's a very optimistic view that can be infuriating to read when you are struggling to pay your bills. I'd also argue it's not very effecicient : we are at our best when we have deadlines and clear targets to reach, and making money to pay the bills can be a very motivating one to stop procrastinating !

> we are at our best when we have deadlines and clear targets to reach

I'd argue we are at our best when those deadlines and clear targets are intrinsic rather than extrinsic, and that intrinsic motivation of that sort is actually more efficient than extrinsic, as it keeps you going much longer.

But yes, that's not always possible and depends greatly on your circumstances.

However, it is often much more possible than people allow themselves to think.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#93

Post by zozbot234 »

shaman1 wrote: post #88
avaer wrote: post #40

It's easy to create value for others and not worry about returns when you have enough money to not worry. Unfortunately for most people, there's plenty of companies willing to take the returns and leave you paycheck to paycheck. That's literally what they are optimized to do. I don't even disagree with the ideal, but I think a prerequisite step to this philosophy is UBI.

https://geohot.github.io/blog/jekyll/update/2026/02/27/the-i... from the same author

Which of course ignores the obvious point that UBI is all about taking existing resource redistribution and making it less costly and more efficient. Practically all Western countries redistribute income on a massive scale (compared to the default outcomes of a completely free market capitalism) in order to ensure everyone can provide for their basic needs, and that could all be gradually replaced by UBI.

This is broadly in line with OP's suggested ethic "create value for others, don't play zero sum games" since capitalism is based on rewarding those who create the most value, whereas zero-sum games are largely political in nature.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#94

Post by energy123 »

vintermann wrote: post #45
energy123 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most games are either negative-sum or positive-sum. Very few are zero-sum.

Well, that's not what I said anyway. I just said that zero sum games are common and there are some important ones you're not escaping.

I'm saying they're not common. Those games you listed are either negative or positive sum. It's like if you draw a random number from a uniform distribution between [-1,1], you're almost certainly not going to get 0. When people say "zero-sum" they use it as a short-hand for "negative-sum", which is fine for casual speaking I guess, because the intended meaning does get across.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#95

Post by borski »

georgehotz wrote: post #21
minmax2020 wrote: post #12

Can anyone explain the rent seeker paragraph? Which companies are playing 0 sum game and which are not? Are all big players not rent seekers?

Building tools and services to reduce hassle and friction for others is great. However, what often happens is that you end up creating and building a moat around that hassle. Think about how companies like TurboTax lobby the government to not build electronic tax filing stuff. Cory Doctorow explains the dynamics well in Enshittification. First they turn against their users, then their business partners, then their em…

TurboTax is a prototypical example of rent-seeking.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#96

Post by simianwords »

cyh555 wrote: post #80
simianwords wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i read this > If you have a job like that, or work at a company like that, the sooner you quit the better your outcome will be. AI will render your job to be rent seeking. Like self driving cars will automate away truck drivers - do you not think they need to be laid off because of AI?

> Like self driving cars will automate away truck drivers - do you not think they need to be laid off because of AI? geohot is talking about AI has its limitation and that it won't truly replace the human yet. Truck drivers and some people who contribute net positive value are not rent seekers at the moment. AI could render our jobs to be rent seeking, we don't know when.

We have unions actively opposing self driving cars mainly to protect their own jobs. In fact I think it’s much more common for a company to lay off because of real ai impact than anything else

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#97

Post by kubb »

duskdozer wrote: post #77
kindkang2024 wrote: post #47

[dead]

>Take Elon Musk — tremendous positive-sum deals with people everywhere, and all together, that's what got him to the top. Ah yes, "tremendous" positive-sum deals like: >Musk admitted to his biographer Ashlee Vance that Hyperloop was all about trying to get legislators to cancel plans for high-speed rail in California—even though he had no plans to build it. https://time.com/6203815/elon-musk-flaws-billionaire-visions…

When will they learn it’s not about value, but about power and perception of value is just means to that?

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#98

Post by borski »

minmax2020 wrote: post #12

Can anyone explain the rent seeker paragraph? Which companies are playing 0 sum game and which are not? Are all big players not rent seekers?

Unlike profit-seeking, which creates value, rent-seeking redistributes existing resources, often through lobbying for subsidies, tariffs, or favorable regulations, causing economic inefficiency and higher prices.

So geohot's argument is that Anthropic, for example, who want to regulate AI (presumably favorably for themselves) are such an example. I don't actually think I agree, but I agree that the behavior looks similar on the surface.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#100

Post by bayindirh »

fragmede wrote: post #71
bayindirh wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you know, you can just just do it. It's just that simple. Fix: Forgot to add /s switch. This comment uses conventional commits.

The problem is, it's not. Communities are messy and complicated, and if you take the slightest whiff of toxicity as a sign to leave a community, you're soon going to find yourself without one.

I know, the comment is meant to be ironic, actually. I was part of quite a few, and some rather large ones (~100 people). I don't leave communities easily, but if I decide to do it, I do it for good. However, I'd rather stay there and be myself.

What I found is, when you act yourself and if the community is not for you, the community silently ousts you. Then you can just collect your bag and leave. No drama, no fight.

However, most of the time, you can at least affect some of the people and motivate them to be better. Some bad people don't know that they are bad and have their hearts at the right place, so it's worth digging them up and let them improve by supporting them.

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