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Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

geohot.github.io

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Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#81

Post by sdeframond »

apples_oranges wrote: post #67
avaer wrote: post #40

It's easy to create value for others and not worry about returns when you have enough money to not worry. Unfortunately for most people, there's plenty of companies willing to take the returns and leave you paycheck to paycheck. That's literally what they are optimized to do. I don't even disagree with the ideal, but I think a prerequisite step to this philosophy is UBI.

money is a judgement of value to society and a motivator to only allocate work in a useful way.. wouldn't UBI, even if coupled to actually producing _something_ will lead to a lot of useless stuff being made?

Money is a function of demand, availability and leverage. Value is only an indirect part of it: a factor that drives demand.

It is easy to find examples of money not being a judgement of value in practice: think about thief or extortion for example, or pushing drugs.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#82

Post by AnthonyMouse »

apples_oranges wrote: post #67
avaer wrote: post #40

It's easy to create value for others and not worry about returns when you have enough money to not worry. Unfortunately for most people, there's plenty of companies willing to take the returns and leave you paycheck to paycheck. That's literally what they are optimized to do. I don't even disagree with the ideal, but I think a prerequisite step to this philosophy is UBI.

money is a judgement of value to society and a motivator to only allocate work in a useful way.. wouldn't UBI, even if coupled to actually producing _something_ will lead to a lot of useless stuff being made?

> wouldn't UBI, even if coupled to actually producing _something_ will lead to a lot of useless stuff being made?

The general premise of a UBI is that it's unconditional.

If you tried to say someone is required to produce something without specifying what it is, they'll produce whatever is the easiest thing to produce, which will naturally be useless if they otherwise wouldn't have produced anything because the only reason they're doing it is to satisfy the demand of someone not imposing any specific requirements on the output.

But if it's actually unconditional then the things produced would only be the things someone wants to produce, i.e. the things worth their time to produce when they're not actually required to spend their time producing it. Those things would tend to be useful because at least the author found them to be and there's a decent chance they're not unique in the world. If you e.g. make an app just because you want to use it yourself, maybe someone else wants to use it too.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#83

Post by card_zero »

sfink wrote: post #44
vintermann wrote: post #24

There are zero-sum games you can't realistically escape. They're really common. Credentials is a zero-sum game. Political power, influence of all sorts, are zero sum games: if you have more of it, someone else has less. Land ownership is basically zero sum, too.

All of those are only zero-sum if you pick a conserved metric. Land ownership is zero-sum if measured in square meters. But say someone buys up land that is parched, dead, and empty. They use it by planting moisture-retaining crops and windbreaks and growing food, or running a business of benefit to the community. Now overall everyone is a little better off, despite 0 square meters being created. Influence is even mo…

Yes, although we do measure it in square meters (or acres, or tatami mats).

Is there such a thing as "partially zero-sum"? I mean, to express how, unless you get really creative in difficult ways, the supply of land is under pressure due to other people taking all the currently useful parts of it, such as the parts on your island and not underwater.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#84

Post by muyuu »

avaer wrote: post #40

It's easy to create value for others and not worry about returns when you have enough money to not worry. Unfortunately for most people, there's plenty of companies willing to take the returns and leave you paycheck to paycheck. That's literally what they are optimized to do. I don't even disagree with the ideal, but I think a prerequisite step to this philosophy is UBI.

I see your post as a pretty strong refutation of OP's premise.

Unless for those who can afford not worrying about money, of course.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#85

Post by burnt-resistor »

The surest recipe to becoming a sucker and being left with nothing is leaving ownership and properly valuing your contributions to chance rather than respecting essential details. Anyone advising others they should just shrug and ignore it is either a moron or trying to play them.

Workers should generally aim to unionize and seek to capture more of their value through worker-owned co-ops.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#86

Post by arisAlexis »

This reads as a typical anti hype article that attracts the people that are fed up with reality. But this framework never works because it's detached from current reality. AI is a big thing and it will eat most jobs weather you call it stupid or you like it.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#87

Post by borski »

latenightcoding wrote: post #60

[deleted]

You misunderstood. All geohot is saying is the same thing Scott Galloway constantly says - your job is to create surplus value. Provide more value than you take, over your lifetime, not over any specific one period, either.

The argument is that if you do that, returns will naturally come your way.

The issue is that many people never provide surplus value at all; some can't, and that is obviously completely acceptable (people who are disabled, have medical conditions, or who for some other reason cannot). But those who are able and choose not to provide surplus value are who he's talking about.

You may not agree, and that's okay, but that's the argument.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#88

Post by shaman1 »

avaer wrote: post #40

It's easy to create value for others and not worry about returns when you have enough money to not worry. Unfortunately for most people, there's plenty of companies willing to take the returns and leave you paycheck to paycheck. That's literally what they are optimized to do. I don't even disagree with the ideal, but I think a prerequisite step to this philosophy is UBI.

https://geohot.github.io/blog/jekyll/update/2026/02/27/the-i...

from the same author

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#89

Post by tasuki »

bob1029 wrote: post #7

> The trick is not to play zero sum games. This is what I have been saying the whole time. Go create value for others and don’t worry about the returns. This strategy is highly effective but it's also difficult to tolerate as an ordinary advanced ape. Watching others play less noble games and obtain easier wins can be discouraging over time. I have found that the less you care about money the easier it is to acquire.…

> I have found that the less you care about money the easier it is to acquire.

That sounds cool but hasn't been my experience at all. I used to care about money, and used to earn well. These days I care less about money (which I can afford to, precisely because I used to care about money) and earn an order of magnitude less.

Re: Create value for others and don’t worry about the returns

#90

Post by borski »

pu_pe wrote: post #10

Even if your goal is to go out and create value for others, your contribution is proportional to what everyone else can offer. If others with AI will deliver that value cheaper, or if what I am good at can be easily automated, it's getting harder and harder to deliver more value than I consume.

Only if you're stuck in the comparison trap. The point isn't to compete about who can offer more value - the point is simply to offer more value (or create more value) than you consume. That's it.

What others do is actually irrelevant to the argument.

If what you are good at can be easily automated... be curious, grow, and get good at other things you can provide more value in. These are usually adjacent to what you're already good at.

Also, the timeline isn't 'the next few years' or 'the past', but 'your entire life.'

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