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NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

bitsoffreedom.nl

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Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#91

Post by foofoo12 »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #68

They need to just ban the ad model and make subscriptions (including free with no ads, if the provider wants it) mandatory. I don't think people understand how the economics of these apps (and websites) work, and it's been so long now that their incorrect assumptions (the feeds are free and the greedy providers shove ads in them) have turned into bedrock beliefs. You pay for instagram with your personal data, which i…

I'm totally convinced that even if you'd pay for Meta based social media account, they'd still harvest as much data on you as possible.

The data is extraordinarily valuable and the morals of Meta is so utterly low.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#92

Post by niek_pas »

maccard wrote: post #37
throwaw12 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for 5 million? I am willing to pay 0.01$ out of my pocket to not comply with some regulations in my country. I can even pay annually

Yes, for 5 million. It’s an intentional slap on the wrist because they don’t actually want to fine them, they just want them to change their behaviour. The general MO of European courts is to get people to comply, not to punish non compliance. There’s a subtle difference. If Meta change their tact in the next two weeks then they got what they wanted. If they don’t, fine increases and they’ll escalate responses.

Some useful context here is that the Netherlands is holding a general election on 29 October, which is why the deadline of two weeks was imposed. If Meta does not comply with the two weeks deadline and instead pays the (tiny) $5 million fine, that could have serious consequences for the democratic process in the Netherlands. Escalating after two weeks might be too little, too late.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#93

Post by nathan_compton »

eru wrote: post #24
astonex wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about making the right choices for society as a whole

Not using Facebook might be the right choice.

It probably is the right choice. But that hardly means that we can't also regulate Facebook.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#94

Post by lopis »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #68

They need to just ban the ad model and make subscriptions (including free with no ads, if the provider wants it) mandatory. I don't think people understand how the economics of these apps (and websites) work, and it's been so long now that their incorrect assumptions (the feeds are free and the greedy providers shove ads in them) have turned into bedrock beliefs. You pay for instagram with your personal data, which i…

But at same time, Facebook & co need so much ad revenue and tracking because a) they are greedy and want to profit a lot, b) their tracking and ad apparatus is very complex and expensive to run, possibly more expensive than the actual product. People don't need half the shit that facebook offers, which is why people moved to instagram without a problem; then instagram became equally bloated.

So yeah, I understand that Meta wants a lot of money, but I reject the idea that we need to suffer this much to have the social features we need.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#95

Post by nathan_compton »

eru wrote: post #90
pixl97 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why dont we make all laws voluntary and let people do whatever they want?

Using Facebook is voluntary.

Living in a society that gets fucked up by Facebook is not voluntary.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#96

Post by whalesalad »

This is government overreach. These are novelty/fun apps. They are not critical infrastructure or needed in any way. This would be like a court ordering a local bar to serve more than just beer and wine, to accomodate people who like sake and soju. You have free choice to use the social platforms that you want to use. Really don't understand this kind of action tbh.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#97

Post by niek_pas »

ecb_penguin wrote: post #56
delbronski wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European, I much prefer technological stagnation over technological progress that is harmful to society.

"As a European, I much prefer technological stagnation over bundled messenger apps" Fixed it for you.

The ruling here is about choice of recommendation system ('algorithm'), which ties into social media addiction as well as electoral influence. So there's actually quite a bit at stake.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#98

Post by darkwater »

sigzero wrote: post #63
moolcool wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instagram Messenger is not

Isn't it free? You're asking a lot for something that is "free".

You can actually pay for Instagram, if you don't want ads. You still have messages tied with the feed.

Now, one must also say that Instagram wasn't the incumbent messaging platform in any place in the world. It's just that newer generations always cannot tolerate to do things like their parents did, so if their parents primarily used Whatsapp or Facebook Messenger (oh, wait, all of them owned by Meta!) to communicate, they ought to find a new platform to get locked in.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#99

Post by duxup »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #68

They need to just ban the ad model and make subscriptions (including free with no ads, if the provider wants it) mandatory. I don't think people understand how the economics of these apps (and websites) work, and it's been so long now that their incorrect assumptions (the feeds are free and the greedy providers shove ads in them) have turned into bedrock beliefs. You pay for instagram with your personal data, which i…

I don't disagree about the structure problems with apps and sites that are free with ads.

I do worry that without that free option users just simply wouldn't ever try anything new and just stay where they are new. If everything costs money to move ... I worry nobody moves and everything stagnates. Facebook and similar, now in an even stronger position.

Users, for worse, like it this way and make free with ads the best route because of their choices. Users with their choices incentivize this system too ...

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#100

Post by darkwater »

alkonaut wrote: post #60
ecb_penguin wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please for the love of god make it a legal requirement that messaging must be made available as a separate app Please for the love of god do not make legal requirements about how to build an app and what features can be included. > We need to be able to message our friends without seeing a feed without having to convert all of our friends to a new platform. lol, you have no legal right to how a chat dialog must be…

That would be the sensible idea in a free market. But that ship sailed LONG ago. Now there are apps and "markets" that are so important and dominating (Amazon, Facebook, ...) that the only alternatives are basically to split them, control them or regulate them in detail. The problem isn't lack of "innovation". Anyone can make any social app work the way they want to. But that doesn't mean the same rules and laws appl…

Case in point: the only other big "apps" that appeared, survived and are actually making a dent in the existing monopolies are from China, backed by a "hostile" government and impossible to buy for the incumbents.
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