IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes • Hacker News Board

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#91

Post by mox1 » Wed, Jul 09, 2025, 2:29 PM UTC

CharlesW wrote: post #74

yesimahuman wrote: post #65

Unfortunately, the writing's on the wall for mainstream adoption of Zigbee. For me, Leviton not making any more Zigbee smart switches was the last straw and I've prioritized Z-wave devices where possible. I also get much better performance out of Z-wave. Sad to see though, as the Zigbee devices I do have are working just fine. I don't really get the point of Matter or Thread when Z-wave works so well.

It's pretty straightforward: Z-Wave is a closed (one company owns and controls the tech and brand) hub-bound mesh, and really should've been displaced by an open solution long ago. Matter is an industry-standard IPv6-based application layer that works over Thread (the successor to ZigBee) and Wi-Fi.

Z-wave also uses 900mhz in the US, which penetrates walls better and has less competition with 2.4 (Zigbee). So while its closed, it usually more performant than Zigbee (in my experience...)

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#92

Post by kstrauser » Wed, Jul 09, 2025, 2:33 PM UTC

CharlesW wrote: post #76

snickerdoodle12 wrote: post #60

RIP. The ikea zigbee stuff was close to being best in class. Matter is still an unusable mess.

In my experience, Matter already works better than Zigbee and Z-Wave ever did, and it gets better every year. I'm interested in what your unusable mess of a system consists of, if you don't mind elaborating.

That’s been my experience. My older Zigbee/Z-Wave stuff seemed to work… up until it didn’t, and then cue wailing and gnashing of teeth. My Matter gear was initially a little flaky but is now vastly more reliable than Zigbee ever was.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#93

Post by macNchz » Wed, Jul 09, 2025, 2:36 PM UTC

Toutouxc wrote: post #31

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #21

This sucks. Matter is a closed ecosystem, enforced using a public key infrastructure (PKI) and device attestation certificates. Thread seems to require paying royalties if you want to ship devices. It’s disappointing that IKEA claims that this move is towards a more open ecosystem. On top of that, the switch breaks compatibility with existing hardware (except for the Touchlink functionality). If you have a bunch of Z…

> If you have a bunch of Zigbee devices, but at some point want to add some of the new ones, you need to start thinking about replacing all the perfectly working Zigbee devices or have a fragmented network. Yes, if you're using the manufacturer's half-assed smartphone app, but if you're on Home Assistant, like basically anyone who's serious about their smart home, having multiple kinds of smart devices isn't really a…

Perhaps I never put enough effort into it, but I've slowly coalesced on only having IKEA smart home products after years of acquiring piecemeal stuff and trying to wire it together with Home Assistant. I've shut down HA, and with every non-IKEA "smart" thing I have nowadays I just use the manufacturer's app (though I've become pretty sour on most smart devices overall and avoid them when possible).

I didn't really care for the way it became a sysadmin job where the stakes of a bad update or me not reading some release notes were that my light switches didn't work until I sat there and futzed around with it. I'm a programmer, enjoy Linux admin, run a whole bunch of servers....but having to dive into logs and YAML configs because the lights in my kitchen won't turn off is just not ideal. Similar issues with HomeKit, except when things mysteriously stop working there's even less ability to diagnose, given Apple's design principles that everything "just works", so apparently providing detailed error messages or diagnostics is gauche.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#94

Post by barbazoo » Wed, Jul 09, 2025, 2:38 PM UTC

Toutouxc wrote: post #31

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #21

This sucks. Matter is a closed ecosystem, enforced using a public key infrastructure (PKI) and device attestation certificates. Thread seems to require paying royalties if you want to ship devices. It’s disappointing that IKEA claims that this move is towards a more open ecosystem. On top of that, the switch breaks compatibility with existing hardware (except for the Touchlink functionality). If you have a bunch of Z…

> If you have a bunch of Zigbee devices, but at some point want to add some of the new ones, you need to start thinking about replacing all the perfectly working Zigbee devices or have a fragmented network. Yes, if you're using the manufacturer's half-assed smartphone app, but if you're on Home Assistant, like basically anyone who's serious about their smart home, having multiple kinds of smart devices isn't really a…

Agree. It’s a hassle to set up once but then you quickly forget about it.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#95

Post by CharlesW » Wed, Jul 09, 2025, 2:39 PM UTC

0x000xca0xfe wrote: post #32

vardump wrote: post #6

Does Thread work without cloud?

Yes but since it routes IPv6 and hubs are usually connected to the Internet when set up by the average consumer, it is very easy for Thread devices to "accidentally" gain Internet access.

My understanding is that it can never be accidental since all access is mesh-local by default. You'd have to install a border router capable of supporting NAT64 features — SmartFriends™, I think this generally not possible with consumer border routers, correct? — and then explicitly enable it for a device.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#96

Post by barbazoo » Wed, Jul 09, 2025, 2:40 PM UTC

macNchz wrote: post #93

Toutouxc wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have a bunch of Zigbee devices, but at some point want to add some of the new ones, you need to start thinking about replacing all the perfectly working Zigbee devices or have a fragmented network. Yes, if you're using the manufacturer's half-assed smartphone app, but if you're on Home Assistant, like basically anyone who's serious about their smart home, having multiple kinds of smart devices isn't really a…

Perhaps I never put enough effort into it, but I've slowly coalesced on only having IKEA smart home products after years of acquiring piecemeal stuff and trying to wire it together with Home Assistant. I've shut down HA, and with every non-IKEA "smart" thing I have nowadays I just use the manufacturer's app (though I've become pretty sour on most smart devices overall and avoid them when possible). I didn't really ca…

What you’re describing hasn’t happened to me yet with Home Assistant luckily, even after 5+ years of running it. I can’t remember an update ever breaking any of my stuff. I’m running a docker container though so YMMV. Might be different with the other install types.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#97

Post by CharlesW » Wed, Jul 09, 2025, 2:41 PM UTC

vorpalhex wrote: post #83

olalonde wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's incorrect. Matter is an open standard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matter_(standard)

Matter is "open" in that it is published. It is not "open" in that you can make a matter device in your basement. Here is the Silabs explainer on the certification process: https://docs.silabs.com/matter/latest/matter-certification/

> It is not "open" in that you can make a matter device in your basement.

You can! You just can't ship it/sell it without certification.

https://www.reddit.com/r/homeassistant/comments/1adh8ah/esp3...

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#98

Post by arcbyte » Wed, Jul 09, 2025, 2:42 PM UTC

macNchz wrote: post #93

Toutouxc wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have a bunch of Zigbee devices, but at some point want to add some of the new ones, you need to start thinking about replacing all the perfectly working Zigbee devices or have a fragmented network. Yes, if you're using the manufacturer's half-assed smartphone app, but if you're on Home Assistant, like basically anyone who's serious about their smart home, having multiple kinds of smart devices isn't really a…

Perhaps I never put enough effort into it, but I've slowly coalesced on only having IKEA smart home products after years of acquiring piecemeal stuff and trying to wire it together with Home Assistant. I've shut down HA, and with every non-IKEA "smart" thing I have nowadays I just use the manufacturer's app (though I've become pretty sour on most smart devices overall and avoid them when possible). I didn't really ca…

I use SmartThings and ive never missed with any configs at all. Only ever one single app - smartthings. Ive been extremely happy after dozens of devices.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#99

Post by orev » Wed, Jul 09, 2025, 2:43 PM UTC

darkwater wrote: post #49

Toutouxc wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have a bunch of Zigbee devices, but at some point want to add some of the new ones, you need to start thinking about replacing all the perfectly working Zigbee devices or have a fragmented network. Yes, if you're using the manufacturer's half-assed smartphone app, but if you're on Home Assistant, like basically anyone who's serious about their smart home, having multiple kinds of smart devices isn't really a…

Yes, but then you have a hard-dependency on HA for inter-network communication, which I try to avoid as much as possible (but I fail to, for a couple of subsystems). My failure model is: 1) no electricity, everything down but fiber, wifi, HA and the doorbell (they run off an UPS) 2) internet down: no problem, you just cannot reach the home automation from outside 3) Home assistant down: zigbee devices are paired toge…

I consider it a requirement of any smart home that alternative methods need to be available during failures. Simply having other devices around that aren’t smart, like an old fashioned light bulb and physical switch to get you through until you can fix whatever is down. 100% uptime is very difficult for large, well-funded IT companies, so I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect it from these consumer-grade devices.

We survived for over 100 years by getting up and flipping a wall switch, so the risk of a few hours without smart features shouldn’t be a showstopper.

Re: IKEA ditches Zigbee for Thread going all in on Matter smart homes

#100

Post by olalonde » Wed, Jul 09, 2025, 2:45 PM UTC

vorpalhex wrote: post #83

olalonde wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's incorrect. Matter is an open standard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matter_(standard)

Matter is "open" in that it is published. It is not "open" in that you can make a matter device in your basement. Here is the Silabs explainer on the certification process: https://docs.silabs.com/matter/latest/matter-certification/

> It is not "open" in that you can make a matter device in your basement.

I did exactly that last week... Certification is required if you want to use the trademarked logo in your marketing materials (same as with Wi-Fi and Bluetooth afaik).