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Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

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Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#91

Post by ghaff »

prerok wrote: post #32
transactional wrote: post #2

...but are they enforceable?

IANAL and I don't know about other countries, but in EU (definitely the country I live in and am pretty sure it goes for the rest as well) any non-compete agreement after two years is void by law. You are required to hold confidential stuff for life, like business contracts, but you can use your know-how, if it does not violate any patents, in a competing company as you see fit. This knowledge is a part of you and ca…

I've actually dealt with this in third-party IP cases I've consulted on. Of course a lot of "bench advice" best practices (use a debugger as a silly example) shouldn't cause a problem--or maybe even some various specific experiences about practices that worked. A file dump of corporate strategy and business plan presentations or code--even if they probably get pretty stale after a few years--probably not.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#92

Post by RhysU »

dimitry12 wrote: post #89
tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #33

OTOH, beware letting yourself be intimidated by scary looking but unenforcable clauses that are all over contracts. In doubt, spend a bit of money on a lawyer to figure out what your real situation is. I know of several cases where lawyers said "don't bother arguing with them about clause X, just sign it and ignore it".

What are the keywords for finding a lawyer who can advise on non-competes? Asking because it turned out nearly impossible to find a local lawyer to advise on a dispute couple months ago - with 9 out of 10 telling me they only do divorces or real estate or immigration. I was literally calling one by one from a list based on what I believe were relevant search criteria on State Bar website.

https://g-s-law.com/flat-fee-employment-agreement-review/

I had them recommended to me. I have used them and was pleased.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#93

Post by treve »

kirubakaran wrote: post #7

It's funny how states like Washington are notorious for enforceable non-competes, to be "business friendly". Meanwhile California bans non-competes, and its GDP is 4th largest in the world if it were a country! "incumbent friendly" vs "startup friendly"

One is friendly to existing wealth and the other to innovation and disruption I suppose.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#94

Post by yborg »

senkora wrote: post #39
gwbas1c wrote: post #28

I once declined a job offer because the non-compete made no sense. (It was many pages, claimed that I would be paid during the non-compete period, and impossible to read.) I basically concluded that they (the company) had a lawyer that was basically wanking off.

In finance, it is common to be paid your base wage during your non-compete. Or at least that is how mine worked.

Since a huge chunk of comp in finance is bonus, especially if you're a rainmaker, I don't see how this is a win.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#96

Post by tptacek »

For what it's worth, a noncompete that makes it effectively impossible for you to apply your profession anywhere for your entire career is unlikely to be enforceable in any state in the country.

Companies that are serious about noncompetes for professionals (rather than hourly shift workers) generally do garden leave. I'd take a noncompete for a garden leave company seriously, and would maybe roll my eyes at a broad noncompete from a random tech firm.

(Don't sign anything you're not comfortable with.)

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#97

Post by v5v3 »

tianqi wrote: post #45

I think the Chinese law is effective in this regard: in order to maintain any non-competition agreement, the company must continue to pay you a monthly compensation amount equal to 30% of your total monthly income when you were at the company. Whenever the payment stops, the non-competition agreement is automatically void.

That's a terrible law.

30% of your total monthly income as it was, when you are likely leaving for more money at a competitor or to start your own company...

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#98

Post by wat10000 »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #26
stego-tech wrote: post #21

Have an employment attorney always look over said agreements before signing. A local acquaintance who did work for an MSP had said MSP try such a ploy, only for the employment attorney to sue and get it thrown out as unreasonable and unenforceable. Never, EVER sign a contract without reading it first, and having your lawyer review it.

> your lawyer That presupposes that people have a lawyer, and one specialized in employment law at that, which is highly unlikely to be the case for 99% of the population.

Money can be exchanged for goods and services.

Re: Tell HN: Beware confidentiality agreements that act as lifetime non competes

#99

Post by v5v3 »

whiplash451 wrote: post #62
coderatlarge wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can you choose to refuse these payments to avoid the responsibility?

I’ve seen this is France and UK but it lasts only a few months and no you can’t refuse the payment - but the company can refuse to pay and set you free.

In UK it's called gardening leave. A period when you are still employed but not at work and can't join another company without agreement.

Uk law generally is that non compete clause is ok, if the length of time is reasonable. But you can't stop a person with a trade from applying that trade unreasonably.

Most tend to be 3-6 months.

Normally it's to stop a person leaving from stealing clients.

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