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PC obsolescence is obsolete

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91–100 of 124 posts

Re: PC obsolescence is obsolete

#91
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither of Apple's non-modular systems you mention are artificial. Upgradeable storage would require substantial additional room in a device that has no room. The Retina MBP's screen is glued together because it makes for a substantial thickness and weight savings. I'm not saying you can't complain about junk. I'm saying that it's really odd to complain about how it's some conspiracy of manufacturers when it's actual…

Neither of Apple's non-modular systems you mention are artificial. Nonsense. Go look at the iFixit write-ups of taking apart recent Apple devices, which helpfully show exactly how similar/different the variations are in many respects, highlight all kinds of proprietary components literally down to the level of unusual screws that have no apparent benefit whatsoever over using a standard/compatible component, and inci…

A direct quote from iFixit: http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-Retina-Display-Te...

"Apple did not design and build a 1.5 mm thin LCD panel. They did, however, do something exceptional with the design of this display: rather than sandwich an LCD panel between a back case and a front glass, they used the aluminum case itself as the frame for the LCD panel and used the LCD as the front glass."

Remember your whole theory about iFixit debunking substantial weight savings? Turns out iFixit agrees with the OP and not with you.

Re: PC obsolescence is obsolete

#92
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nerfing hardware artificially can be beneficial to the consumer. I'm sure many things have a lot of their cost not in physical production, but in engineering/design. Software would be an extreme example of this. This being the case, nerfing allows different price points to be offered in order to more efficiently pay back engineering costs on the overall line. This is a win/win for the consumer and the seller compared…

I understand the market segmentation argument, but I fail to see how shipping a new generation of product, at a higher price than the previous generation, where the analogous model from the previous generation was unambiguously and objectively superior in specification, can possibly be benefitting anyone who buys the new, more expensive, inferior device.

Example?

Re: PC obsolescence is obsolete

#93
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I live in a different universe, but I feel like computers are so slow these days. How is everyone claiming that are sufficiently fast? Starting up Outlook takes 10 full seconds (just the splash screen consumes half of that time). When I open up a web browser or click a link in an email, it takes about 5 seconds to fully load. Even distilling a file to pdf or loading Facebook takes almost 5 seconds. I don't thin…

Do you have an SSD?

I do on one computer, and it does make things noticeably faster, but still feels slow compared to how people are describing their computers. I am constantly waiting a couple seconds in between actions.

Re: PC obsolescence is obsolete

#94
CPU obsolescence

OTOH everything else has been playing catch up. Disk, Network, Bus etc... Sure my CPU has hit the ceiling, but it spends 95% of its time idle anyway. Broadband five years ago was probably a 3-5Mbps link, and storage was a 7200rpm platter. Now broadband is 20mbps and storage is an SSD.

Re: PC obsolescence is obsolete

#95

I think this pretty well reflects Microsoft's long-term consumer risk, too. More than half of MSFT's revenue ( http://www.tannerhelland.com/4273/microsoft-money-updated-20... ) comes from Windows and Office (and over half the profit, Windows http://news.yahoo.com/microsoft-defer-revenue-windows-upgrad... ). Back in the 90s and early 00s, the rate of change in the PC market was amazing. The hardware you could buy in 1…

produce desirable hardware that people buy for non-technical reasons instead of raw figures

Of late I've been contending that specs are excuses admitting inadequacy.

Until recently, every new computer (broadly defined) was listed with a proliferation of specifications (_.__MHz CPU _GB RAM ___GB HD ...). Now, in particular with the iPad and trending with other machines, no specifications (beyond what amounts to "small, medium, or large") are given. Why? specifications are needed to convince buyers the product is good enough when it isn't.

Most users just want something that's capable enough that they don't have to think about the technical limitations. Most users glaze over at random-looking numbers associated with meaningless abbreviations denoting implementation details they don't understand; their question isn't "how many gigahertz is the processor?" it's "if I click something will I be annoyed by the delay?" The real answer to the latter question is "yes, you will". To obscure that dissatisfying answer, sellers toss out the profusion of specifications in an attempt to convince buyers that the product is good enough to buy anyway. Users, able to at least evaluate whether X > Y, compare the numbers and convince themselves that those numbers are as large as they can be and still have an affordable package.

Apple's goal is to sell hardware. With the onset of "retina" displays, flash memory, multi-core processors, iCloud, etc. all those specifications transition from confusion to "good enough". Doesn't matter what the number of pixels are, you can't discern them so it's good enough. Doesn't matter what the storage capacity is, between terabytes local and near-bottomless cloud behind it you won't run out. Flash is so fast you mostly won't care. Processor speeds equal supercomputers of recent past. It's all "good enough" - making the comparison between Apple products and "lots of incomprehensible random numbers & abbreviations" easy.

PC makers still flaunting specifications are saying "no, really, it's good enough - see?" making customers hesitate their purchase. Apple is going for "details are irrelevant, it's good enough - period."

Re: PC obsolescence is obsolete

#96
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither of Apple's non-modular systems you mention are artificial. Upgradeable storage would require substantial additional room in a device that has no room. The Retina MBP's screen is glued together because it makes for a substantial thickness and weight savings. I'm not saying you can't complain about junk. I'm saying that it's really odd to complain about how it's some conspiracy of manufacturers when it's actual…

Neither of Apple's non-modular systems you mention are artificial. Nonsense. Go look at the iFixit write-ups of taking apart recent Apple devices, which helpfully show exactly how similar/different the variations are in many respects, highlight all kinds of proprietary components literally down to the level of unusual screws that have no apparent benefit whatsoever over using a standard/compatible component, and inci…

The pentalobe screws are stupid, and I'll be the first in line to call Apple a bunch of jerks for it. However, they're unrelated to using non-modularity as a weapon against customers. The screws certainly qualify as such a weapon, but they're unrelated to component modularity.

As for the rest, can you give me a specific example of a non-modular system that Apple has made that didn't result in savings in cost, space, or weight? Because every example I can think of saves at least one of those, so either you're thinking of something I'm not, or we disagree on what the savings are. Either way, I can't address it until I know exactly what you're referring to.

Re: PC obsolescence is obsolete

#97
post #9

> Now, compare an early Core i7 system (Nehalem) against what’s shipping today (Ivy Bridge). Clock speeds are up a bit, and there are cheaper/lower-end options available, but the Core i7-920 that launched at 2.67GHz with four cores and eight threads is still absolutely capable of powering the latest games and applications. A big, big factor in the slowdown of obsolecense is that the current generation of consoles has…

I would disagree about console gaming. A stretch this long happened before between the original NES and the SNES, as well as the original Gameboy and a more powerful version. From then on there was the 4 year like clockwork release of a new console system from every major manufacturer. In this cycle, none have any definite release date, stretching this generation to 8 or 9 years. While I agree games propel hardware f…

I'm not totally sure that the diversification of video games is to blame. For every Duke Nukem, DOOM, and Quake, there where equally popular and less taxing games like SimCity and RollerCoaster Tycoon that have been players in the gaming world that did not push hardware forward.

Additionally, I very much take issue with your statement that Crysis, a game released in 2007 is still the "standard" for graphics intensive games.

The games that are pushing the bounds of PC hardware are games like [1]The Witcher 2, games which are huge improvements on [2]Crysis.

[1]http://cdn.ripten.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/witcher2-20...

[2]http://oyster.ignimgs.com/ve3d/ve3d/image/article/745/745255...

Re: PC obsolescence is obsolete

#98
You also have to factor in that life expectancy of these machines. Usually processors last about 5 years and by the time that happens you're probably going to want to get the latest which will most likely be a different socket and require a new motherboard.

Furthermore, PC enthusiasts and gamers will never be satisfied. These folk live for the next hardware releases to get even the tiniest gain on their overclocks or go from 2x AA to 4x AA. The PC enthusiast community is a force to be reckoned with. Don't believe me? Just check out the plethora of forums out there and see how active they are. I don't see that going away anytime soon.

Re: PC obsolescence is obsolete

#99
The relentless evolution of the PC was driven largely by PC gaming. In the 90's and early 2000's you could rely on the fact that a PC bought one year would struggle with games made the following year and be incapable of playing at least some games made 2-3 years later. As such, gamers eagerly adopted new hardware, overclocked, overspent by factors of 2 or 3 in the vain hope that it would buy them a few extra months (when in fact it was more sensible to buy a cheaper PC and upgrade more often).

Then a funny thing happened. The video game market outgrew the movie market. It started making financial sense to invest tens of millions in the development of a single game. The cost of the content (i.e. character designs, level designs, script, voice acting, motion capture, etc.) far outstripped the cost of coding the engine. It became a complete no-brainer to port games to as many platforms as possible to maximize your audience. The corollary to this is that it became necessary to design games such that it was possible to port them to as many platforms as possible. That meant that most developers stopped exclusively developing for one platform and instead started designing for them all. While you can always tack on some superficial eye-candy on when the hardware supports it, games could not be designed to have basic gameplay requiring more resources than the slowest platform was capable of. Thus, consoles became an anchor that brought the relentless march of PC game requirements to a screeching halt.

The Xbox360 and PS3, not to mention the Wii, are handily out-performed by today's desktops by a large degree. Mobile phones are poised to pass them within a couple of years! However, the games you can play on a PC are largely identical to the console versions. Sure, there are some improved graphics, additional content, etc., but these differences are superficial. In fact, if your hardware isn't the latest and greatest, most games can simply scale back the eye-candy to maintain performance. Even PC-only developers, such as Blizzard, have recognized that they must build games with conservative minimum requirements in today's market.

The end result is that PC gamers can run new games with only superficial inferiority to what the latest generation of desktop hardware is capable of. They no longer need to upgrade their desktops. At least, they won't until the next generation of consoles arrive. When that happens there will be many new games designed with greatly increased resources in mind and a big wave of desktop upgrades will ensue.

In the end, PC obsolescence isn't really dead. It's just quantized differently.

Re: PC obsolescence is obsolete

#100
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither of Apple's non-modular systems you mention are artificial. Nonsense. Go look at the iFixit write-ups of taking apart recent Apple devices, which helpfully show exactly how similar/different the variations are in many respects, highlight all kinds of proprietary components literally down to the level of unusual screws that have no apparent benefit whatsoever over using a standard/compatible component, and inci…

A direct quote from iFixit: http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-Retina-Display-Te... "Apple did not design and build a 1.5 mm thin LCD panel. They did, however, do something exceptional with the design of this display: rather than sandwich an LCD panel between a back case and a front glass, they used the aluminum case itself as the frame for the LCD panel and used the LCD as the front glass." Remember your who…

Would it be too obvious to point out that what you quoted doesn't even mention anything about weight?

Also, here's another direct quote for you:

"Incorporating a removable LCD into the MacBook Pro with Retina display would increase the thickness by less than a millimeter, while still preserving the awesome Retina resolution."

Source: http://ifixit.org/2787/mid-2012-macbook-pro-teardown/

Unless you're going to argue that less than a millimetre is enough to swing a purchase regardless of display resolution, in which case a lot of MBP Retina owners are presumably on their way back to the Apple Store to swap for a MacBook Air, it looks like iFixit does support my claim after all.

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