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The Brief Origins of May Day

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Re: The Brief Origins of May Day

#91

Post by cruzcampo »

constantcrying wrote: post #76
cruzcampo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But software developers are the working class. Anyone who derives their income from labor is.

Sure. And that is why protesting looks so ridiculous. The oppressed working class, making six figures typing away in a well furnished office.

We are what is called the labor aristocracy in socialist discourse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_aristocracy

It is still labor and we are still exploited - most the revenue we generate goes to capitalist interests, not us, the laborers, which are the creators of all revenue.

It's just that we have it comparatively good and so are less inclined to seek out systemic change - a less favorable reading would be that we are bought off to split us off from the rest of the proletariat.

Re: The Brief Origins of May Day

#92

Post by dgrin91 »

parpfish wrote: post #16

Why don’t labor issues resonate more with tech workers? I know that we’re not a monolith and are actually a heterogeneous mix of opinions, but there frequently talk about job dissatisfaction (career burnout, comically stingy equity grants, etc). But when organizing comes up, it’s usually treated with disdain because so many have bought into highly individualistic hustle-culture and the narrative that unions only exis…

Tech workers tend to get paid very well. That limits incentivization for unionization. Also there is a stigma that unions tend to be for the middle of the road workers with modest salaries. All the senior leaders with big salaries are not union, and everyone wants the big salary.

Re: The Brief Origins of May Day

#93

Post by throw0101a »

dauertewigkeit wrote: post #61
parpfish wrote: post #16

Why don’t labor issues resonate more with tech workers? I know that we’re not a monolith and are actually a heterogeneous mix of opinions, but there frequently talk about job dissatisfaction (career burnout, comically stingy equity grants, etc). But when organizing comes up, it’s usually treated with disdain because so many have bought into highly individualistic hustle-culture and the narrative that unions only exis…

What makes solidarity between workers possible is the homogeneity of their labour. This condition is not present for tech workers. Labour market conditions are completely different from those of say, a meat processing plant or a factory assembly line.

> What makes solidarity between workers possible is the homogeneity of their labour.

Ethan Hunt play by Tom Cruise and Waitress #2 played by Jane Doe aren't very homogeneous with regards to pay and fame, but they're both part of SAG.

Re: The Brief Origins of May Day

#94

Post by cruzcampo »

constantcrying wrote: post #86
masijo wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, there's a lot more to the working class than just manual labor. Anyone that depends on a wage to live is a worker, and we all share the same struggles.

The same struggles, like the quality of the office coffee machine? Bike subsidies from the employer too low?

[flagged]

Re: The Brief Origins of May Day

#96

Post by ses1984 »

dauertewigkeit wrote: post #61
parpfish wrote: post #16

Why don’t labor issues resonate more with tech workers? I know that we’re not a monolith and are actually a heterogeneous mix of opinions, but there frequently talk about job dissatisfaction (career burnout, comically stingy equity grants, etc). But when organizing comes up, it’s usually treated with disdain because so many have bought into highly individualistic hustle-culture and the narrative that unions only exis…

What makes solidarity between workers possible is the homogeneity of their labour. This condition is not present for tech workers. Labour market conditions are completely different from those of say, a meat processing plant or a factory assembly line.

Most of us have way, way more in common with a meat processing worker than we have in common with the people who sign our pay checks.

The wealthy class makes multiples of your salary in passive income and their marginal tax rate is lower. You work and fork over 40%. They do nothing and pay 15% or less.

You put your retirement money into a 401k. They put their retirement money into a “charitable foundation”.

You draw down from your retirement money. They take a loan against it.

What’s the difference between a billionaire and a meat packing worker? Billions of dollars.

What’s the difference between a billionaire and a faang engineer? Also billions of dollars.

Re: The Brief Origins of May Day

#97

Post by trgn »

constantcrying wrote: post #76
cruzcampo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But software developers are the working class. Anyone who derives their income from labor is.

Sure. And that is why protesting looks so ridiculous. The oppressed working class, making six figures typing away in a well furnished office.

the labor movement really needs to get beyond this stereotype that it is to lift all these hunched poor little downtrodden suppliants out of poverty. workers who have successfully organized are not pitiful schlubs, and their affluence is a testament to the success of their organizing, not its triviality. political interests of the labor class just are not the same as those of capital, and therefore its methods and aims should be different as well.

Re: The Brief Origins of May Day

#98

Post by naming_the_user »

smallmancontrov wrote: post #70
naming_the_user wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a personal perspective - I don't care that much about "labour issues" because it seems like a logically flawed avenue to explore to begin with. To be financially successful under any market system I can think of requires you, in a mathematical sense, to be close enough to the top within a company that you get a greater proportion of the profit than simply 1/employees. In simple terms - I can't employ a maid unle…

No, it is not mathematically ordained that conditions must suck on the bottom of the pyramid in an absolute sense. In a relative sense, your argument isn't wrong, but in an absolute sense, the failure of our economy to bring modest levels of comfort on the bottom despite truly astonishing advances in fundamental capacity is a scathing indictment.

In the absolute sense, from my perspective as someone who was born with not much (I often have a sense that this discussion is driven by people who were always fairly well off and see "the poor" as a different species) the primary issue is excessive regulation, resulting in things like property being hilariously expensive, so that it's difficult to afford a house or start a business.

Wages and hours for low level jobs feel like a distraction, barely anyone needs more toys, the issue is that the necessary items for life are monopolised.

So from my perspective the only thing that labour regulation can achieve is to basically just compress that experience, we still won't build more housing or make it easier to do so etc.

Re: The Brief Origins of May Day

#99

Post by citadel_melon »

dgrin91 wrote: post #92
parpfish wrote: post #16

Why don’t labor issues resonate more with tech workers? I know that we’re not a monolith and are actually a heterogeneous mix of opinions, but there frequently talk about job dissatisfaction (career burnout, comically stingy equity grants, etc). But when organizing comes up, it’s usually treated with disdain because so many have bought into highly individualistic hustle-culture and the narrative that unions only exis…

Tech workers tend to get paid very well. That limits incentivization for unionization. Also there is a stigma that unions tend to be for the middle of the road workers with modest salaries. All the senior leaders with big salaries are not union, and everyone wants the big salary.

It’s silly. MLB players are unionized and they make more money than tech workers. The reason why management don’t need a union is because they have much more say in determining their own wages.

Re: The Brief Origins of May Day

#100

Post by constantcrying »

parpfish wrote: post #87
cruzcampo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But software developers are the working class. Anyone who derives their income from labor is.

Sometimes I worry that all the stories about unions helping to end the most extreme exploitation and fix deadly working conditions has made them unrelatable. If you make a cushy salary and the biggest physical risk is carpal tunnel, you might think ”I dont have it THAT bad. It’d be greedy and disrespectful of the sacrifices that were made to use unions in my situation”

What made unions unrelatable for me was them obviously pushing the interest of factory workers over the interests of engineers. Thanks for trying to get my job outsourced I guess.
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