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It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

thephcheese.com

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Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#91

Post by bigstrat2003 »

craftkiller wrote: post #56
parliament32 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the best example is parmesan. You should buy a small brick and shred it, then compare to the Kraft tube we all know -- the difference is massive.

I've had both and I'm going to have to disagree with you here. For the other cheeses, buying a brick is always the right choice. For parmesan, if its going on pasta I'm picking the green plastic tube of presumably mostly filler 100% of the time. Brick parm lacks the proper texture and has too strong of a flavor. Green tube mystery powder I can pour onto my pasta in mounds that then absord the butter making a soft del…

> Brick parm lacks the proper texture and has too strong of a flavor.

That's exactly why I use Parmesan from a block of cheese. It has so much more flavor, and I find that far superior. That doesn't make you wrong, of course... taste is subjective. Just thought it was funny that we have opposite views on the stronger flavor.

Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#92

Post by jandrese »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #84
silisili wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I went down this rabbit hole last year, going as far as even buying sodium citrate that's supposed to help it melt together, with mixed results and awful taste. Never came close to anything resembling a well melted, good tasting sauce.

I too have experimented with sodium citrate. I ended up with something reminiscent of movie-theater nacho sauce.

I got a nice texture when I tried it, but it make the cheese too salty.

Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#93

Post by Suppafly »

kube-system wrote: post #83
Suppafly wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My family eats a lot of shredded cheese, pre and home shredded, I've never noticed in anything melted nor in anything where it's only half melted like tacos. Any graininess that might be present would be far offset by the other ingredients, but honestly I've never tasted any graininess. The anticaking stuff isn't even grainy, so why would the resulting cheese be grainy? You can lick a piece of pre-shredded cheese and…

> While cellulose is an anticaking agent, I don't think I've ever seen it used for cheese. Typically you see cheese using a modified corn starch. I've seen potato, corn, and cellulose. I suspect the ideal choice depends on the type of cheese. Here's shredded parmesan with cellulose for example: https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/42642acb-1802-40dd-bfa6-795...

parmesan is pretty much the only one i ever see with cellulose

Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#94

Post by gambiting »

wholinator2 wrote: post #66
astura wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are super religious about this but I've never been able to tell pre-shredded cheese from cheese I've shredded myself and I don't think anyone else can tell the difference in a blind taste test.

That's actually crazy to me. Like, a sealed, generic brand bag from the cold section of a chain grocery store vs a block purchased from the deli and shredded by hand? The difference is massive! Taste will vary between the two anyways but the texture difference is categorical. The pre shredded has grainy flour like stuff all over it, the manually shredded is completely smooth with no graininess at all. I can 1000% tel…

>>The difference is massive!

Like...in what way? If I buy a block of Aldi's cheddar and Aldi's pre-shredded cheese it tastes the same once it's mixed into something - except the block saves me like 20p and wastes 10 minutes of my life on grating and cleaning up afterwards.

Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#95

Post by Suppafly »

kube-system wrote: post #87
Suppafly wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, and I also doubt people's ability to tell the difference in a blind taste comparison. People claiming to do so visually see the anti-caking agent, they don't taste it. It doesn't taste grainy. You can taste a bit of corn starch or cellulose directly and tell that it doesn't taste 'grainy' or even have much of a flavor at all.

The point of the anti-caking agent is to prevent the cheese from sticking to itself, which inherently affects the texture of the cheese in your mouth... it doesn't stick to itself the same way freshly shredded cheese does, particularly if the cheese is soft and sticky like processed american cheeses. Although it is likely less noticeable for dryer and harder cheeses.

>The point of the anti-caking agent is to prevent the cheese from sticking to itself, which inherently affects the texture of the cheese in your mouth

It does so by keeping the cheese 'dryer' than it normally would be. Putting it in your mouth basically undoes that. You're only going to notice if you're eating it by the handful, not when you're using it in actual food dishes.

Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#96

Post by [deleted] »

craftkiller wrote: post #56
parliament32 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the best example is parmesan. You should buy a small brick and shred it, then compare to the Kraft tube we all know -- the difference is massive.

I've had both and I'm going to have to disagree with you here. For the other cheeses, buying a brick is always the right choice. For parmesan, if its going on pasta I'm picking the green plastic tube of presumably mostly filler 100% of the time. Brick parm lacks the proper texture and has too strong of a flavor. Green tube mystery powder I can pour onto my pasta in mounds that then absord the butter making a soft del…

[deleted]

Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#97

Post by GloamingNiblets »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #67
xattt wrote: post #10

Tangential, but I recently noticed that natamycin, an antifungal agent, is being used in packages of shredded cheese as a preservative. I was a little taken aback on seeing it, given that antibiotic stewardship has been pushed so much in the last decade. I realize that natamycin is an antifungal and not an antibiotic, and that mechanisms of developing resistance are likely different between eukaryotes and prokaryotes…

Natamycin was discovered in 1955 has been widely used as a food preservative ever since. Especially cheese and bread, but also fruit, meat and peanuts. Typically adds between 1 week and 1 month of shelf life to products in the typical doses

Given our developing understanding of the importance of the human microbiome, which includes fungi (the mycobiome), I steer clear of anti fungal preservatives in my food personally.

Just because something has been used since 1955 doesn't mean it's all good.

Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#98

Post by goosejuice »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #90
goosejuice wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't do this in a restaurant but a quick cheese sauce for something like nachos. Just pop some shredded cheese in the microwave with some heavy cream or half and half. Adjust to taste / texture. Stir well. Mornay, citrate, and evaporated milk approaches work but I'm lazy so I just do the cream approach for "queso".

Honestly for a quick cheese sauce for nachos I don't think you can beat Velveeta. It doesn't get easier, and I prefer the flavor of American cheese for things like that.

If you like Velveeta I guess. I can't stand it and prefer to use whatever melty cheese I have on hand.

I always have cream and some kind of melty cheese. Buying Velveeta would be a specific purchase, for me, rather than hmm what can I make with what I have.

Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#99

Post by robocat »

Suppafly wrote: post #79
robocat wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are generalizing from your own tastes. Just because you don't notice something doesn't mean that others don't. I started to notice this when I was hanging out with a very smart friend who worked as a restaurant cook. They just noticed heaps of stuff I didn't if we went out for a meal. I wasn't sure if it was training or natural ability.

>I started to notice this when I was hanging out with a very smart friend who worked as a restaurant cook. They just noticed heaps of stuff I didn't if we went out for a meal. Or they were being pretentious to try and impress you. I suspect even they can't tell if melted cheese within a dish started out pre-shredded or not.

You are making up stuff.

Skill and pretentiousness are independent variables. Assuming that one is correlated with the other is a sign of poor judgement. I know people that fit would fit in each of the four quadrants {skillful-pretentious, unskilled-pretentious, skillful-humble, unskilled-humble}.

Anecdotally cooks are not usually pretentious - perhaps in your circles or in your city things are different? Personally I've got little time for pretentious people.

> I suspect even they can't tell if melted cheese within a dish started out pre-shredded or not.

I didn't say that. But https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43537461 did say that.

You can deny the reality of other people all you like. A more open-minded scientific approach is to listen to other people's experiences. People have some weird skills. And they believe some weird things. But yeah, it is hard to truly judge the skills of others.

Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#100

Post by rbrownmh »

dekhn wrote: post #15

Cheese crystals are umami. Many of them are glutamate crystals. I am curious if the other amino crystals have a similar flavor profile.

The umami flavor of cheese, especially hard cheeses, is incredibly under appreciated. And I'll never understand the popularity of pre-shredded cheese...
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