how quickly things change. the aspirational tech ethos today is one of a will to dominion, of incessant action over introspection, of gut over mind.
Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)
91–100 of 338 posts
Re: Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)
#92[deleted]
Re: Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
"perfect" is a weird word to use in stoicism, but I do think it can be used to justify that things "are the way they are" and shrug it off with some visualization.
I always saw Stoicism as “things around you are going to be really screwed up and panicking about it will make it worse” The first part of that sentence is opposite to what the author here suggests.
both "screwed up" and "perfect" are judgements calls/perspectives, and panicking isn't going to change things (panic doesn't necessarily make something worse either)
Re: Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)
#94One perspective is that meditation and stoicism helps silence guilt about being so properous in an unequal society.
Why should one feel guilt about being prosperous in an unequal society? Even if you accept that it's based entirely on luck rather than merits, I don't see why you should feel guilt. A few examples of things based entirely on luck that no one really argues we should feel guilty about: Being tall Having high innate level of intelligence Athletic Physical beauty
"Luck" is the wrong word w.r.t. your examples. It could not have been otherwise, as you are those features. You wouldn't be you if you didn't. There's no ghost in the machine that is the "real you" that is haunting a carcass where these features are like possessions that you own. You don't own them. They are (a part) of who and what you are. They are things you can, in the appropriate manner, share with others.
You didn't earn them, but so what? Why is everyone obsessed with everything having to be earned? A gift also belongs to me, even if I didn't do anything to earn it, and no one is entitled to take it from me as such any more than they can take anything I have earned.
Now, w.r.t. material prosperity, of course there is no reason to feel guilt. If you acquired your wealth morally, then all is well. This is distinct from the general obligation of those in our society with means that exceed their own needs to aid those in a state of poverty. Note that I said poverty, not having less. Having less is not an injustice.
The framing of inequality as injustice in recently years is rather a symptom of envy or confusion rather than an impulse coming from an intelligent sensitivity to injustice.
Re: Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)
#95I find that the tools of cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) is a re-embodiment of many of elements of stoicism. It is interesting to think of the 50 million Americans going to therapy as paying for a personal philosophy mentor. You can use this as a jumping off point for all kinds of societal speculation and armchair observations on culture.
Re: Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think your last example demonstrates the value of stoicism. In many cases, our untrained emotional response to life prevents us from achieving more or enjoying life. Instead of screaming, you could spend the time enjoying your loved ones for as long as possible. You could try to find a way to stop the plane from falling or work on bracing yourself to survive the impact. Stoicism is a realizing that many of our inst…
I suspect that screaming at a person who has done you wrong, in the vast majority of cases, has both the intended effect and a desirable one. If you are in an elite position of leadership, and otherwise have more Machiavellian options, then you can always try to calculate revenge instead -- or forgive endlessly and be exploited. I'd say in the majority of cases, for most adult people with some life experience, shouti…
> I'd say in the majority of cases, for most adult people with some life experience, shouting when you want to shout is probably a healthy thing.
Sure, and that is totally fine.
But Stoic philosophy disagrees with that. Just as with many other fundamental questions about how to live life, there are different answers/points of view. You don't agree with the Stoic one, and you even offer some reasons why you think it may be harmful. That's entirely fine. The only problem is in your implicit assumption that Stoicism has failed to consider the perspective you have, and if it did, Stoics would abandon their approach to life. That's not true. While there may be Stoics whose individual lives would be improved by adopting your approach, Stoicism as a philosophy is not blind to the perspective you're offering. It just rejects it.
Re: Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)
#97If anyone is interested in stoicism then this classic lecture by Dr Sugrue is excellent.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Auuk1y4DRgk
I have watched this lecture multiple times (each time I was going through some bad things in my life) and it helped me tremendously.
Stoicism in general has many excellent philosophical ideas that you can apply to your life. Maybe this lecture and stoic ideals will help you if you are in times of despair and sadness the way this lecture and those ideals helped me.
Re: Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)
#98"stoicism’s Providential claim that everything in the universe is already perfect and that things which seem bad or unjust are secretly good underneath (a claim Christianity borrowed from Stoicism) can be used to justify the idea that the rich and powerful are meant to be rich and powerful" What did I miss? Does Stoicism claim everything in the universe is already perfect? That seems like a bold (counter-intuitive) c…
The serenity Prayer always have a stoic quality to me.
"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."
Re: Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)
#99[deleted]
Re: Stoicism's appeal to the rich and powerful (2019)
#100It's no accident that a roman emperor (tyrant, mass murderer, and courtier) is the premier famous stoic. Nor is it an accident that the next most famous case is that of British empire public schooling, british "stiff upper lip" stocisim. (EDIT: Marcus Aurelius) himself was no stoic philosopher, he merely wrote diaries to himself in his late days -- diaries he wanted burned, not published. And these were rehresals of…
The next most famous stoic would then be Epictetus who influenced Marcus Aurelius and is cited in the Meditations. > Epictetus (/ˌɛpɪkˈtiːtəs/, EH-pick-TEE-təss; Ancient Greek: Ἐπίκτητος, Epíktētos; c. 50 – c. 135 AD) was a Greek Stoic philosopher. He was born into slavery at Hierapolis, Phrygia (present-day Pamukkale, in western Turkey) and lived in Rome until his banishment, when he went to Nicopolis in northwester…
> Stoicism was a philosophy that spanned slave to emperor in Rome.
As is addressed in the article.