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A new law in Sweden lets police seize unexplained luxury goods

economist.com

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Re: A new law in Sweden lets police seize unexplained luxury goods

#91

Post by eesmith »

rosmax_1337 wrote: post #76
twelvechairs wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Integration is a two-way street. I've known many people born in England, France, Germany who feel excluded from education opportunities, workplace opportunities, healthcare and general civil society because of their family origin, cultural background and pure skin colour. Probably also how they speak in the UK. This issue is much less in new world countries (US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand). Let people into societ…

So it's Sweden's own people's fault for not wanting to do "integration"? Do you believe the average Swede wanted mass immigration in the first place?

I don't think any Swede wanted conditions in Syria to get so bad that mass numbers of people felt they needed to leave their homes, friends, and livelihood in order to survive, so no, I don't think Swedes wanted this mass immigration.

But it happened. So what next, kill them all? Starve them in concentration camps? Isolate them on islands with no hope at all of integration or work?

If only there were some way to unite the nations to set up a better system that could prevent decades of internal war and conflict, or set up a treaty for how to handle refugees.

Perhaps even just some sort of union of all the European countries to jointly and equally share the load when refugees come.

Re: A new law in Sweden lets police seize unexplained luxury goods

#92

Post by twelvechairs »

rosmax_1337 wrote: post #90
twelvechairs wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not apportioning blame just saying that what's happening now is feeding a future of separate societies that probably everyone would rather avoid. I don't believe the average Swede wanted mass immigration but there were immigration policies in place that were put in place by Sweden's leaders on behalf of its people that weren't questioned until later. You are where you are now - you can't unring a bell. You have t…

The bell indeed can't be unrung. But, if one understands that what the Swedish leaders did was not on behalf of it's people, you begin to understand what the future should look like.

That's a very cryptic response. I very much don't know what you mean by it. Maybe you could spell out what you want for the future?

Re: A new law in Sweden lets police seize unexplained luxury goods

#93

Post by rosmax_1337 »

dartos wrote: post #89
rosmax_1337 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second sentence is justification. I don't mind if people don't just accept my conclusion based on the comment, it's just a comment, a small piece of the puzzle in someones mind.

It’s not a justification though. That’s what I’m saying. Just because the left doesn’t mention an issue, doesn’t mean that a consensus is reached. No political party really talks much about school shootings in the US nowadays, but that doesn’t mean the consensus is young white men are naturally school shooters.

Do you think all comments need to be articles in length? My original comment contains an idea, and a justification. It really is almost platonic in how simple it is actually, schoolbook example.

You might feel that the justification is inadequate, but instead you began talking about how my comment doesn't "prove" anything, and now that it doesn't contain justification at all.

Part of the reason why this justifies the idea that a consensus actually has been reached, is that the left used to extol in length the benefits of immigration, and how Swedes are terrible people that need diversity to get anywhere. It turned out that was wrong, and now the country is heading away from reasonably being called a developed country any more. The focus of the leftists in control is instead to feverishly moderate the discussion so no one begins talking about __mass remigration__, what Sweden actually needs, and they do this by talking about limiting migration, even deporting some criminals. (the consensus, ding ding)

Re: A new law in Sweden lets police seize unexplained luxury goods

#94

Post by bryanlarsen »

rosmax_1337 wrote: post #49
bryanlarsen wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's too reductive to claim that immigration didn't cause problems, and it's too reductive to claim that immigration is the source of most of the problems.

What do you think causes the problems?

All the usuals: drugs, cost of living, unemployment, inequality, radicalization, etc. Immigration is one of many.

Re: A new law in Sweden lets police seize unexplained luxury goods

#95

Post by danielfoster »

knallfrosch wrote: post #28
danielfoster wrote: post #13

It sounds like this law will be used to target drug gangs and organized crime. Regardless, I don’t see how it can be applied without discriminating against minorities. I highly doubt the woman at the airport, who the article states was stopped for having expensive jewelry, was white and Swedish. If the police stopped you on the street and asked how you were able to afford a MacBook or XYZ, would you be able to “prove…

> If the police stopped you on the street and asked how you were able to afford a MacBook or XYZ, would you be able to “prove” it? Yes, because I have a legal occupation.

Do you carry your payment slips with you? What if the item in question is deemed too expensive for your role?

Yes, you could probably pull up your work email or show the bank deposits, but my point is that this is an arbitrary standard that cannot be consistently enforced.

Re: A new law in Sweden lets police seize unexplained luxury goods

#96

Post by rosmax_1337 »

twelvechairs wrote: post #92
rosmax_1337 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bell indeed can't be unrung. But, if one understands that what the Swedish leaders did was not on behalf of it's people, you begin to understand what the future should look like.

That's a very cryptic response. I very much don't know what you mean by it. Maybe you could spell out what you want for the future?

I will refrain, unfortunately. Have a good day.

Re: A new law in Sweden lets police seize unexplained luxury goods

#97

Post by rosmax_1337 »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #94
rosmax_1337 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think causes the problems?

All the usuals: drugs, cost of living, unemployment, inequality, radicalization, etc. Immigration is one of many.

Sweden had these issues before migration, yet not the same disastrous societal result.

Re: A new law in Sweden lets police seize unexplained luxury goods

#98

Post by stackskipton »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #77
inglor_cz wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Integration of randomly arrived (as opposed to selectively chosen and well-educated) Muslims has proved nigh impossible everywhere in the world of "unbelievers". As far as the UK goes, Hindus and Sikhs, who look every bit as exotic and dark-skinned as Pakistanis, are on average richer than white Britons and also societally very successful. If there is some kind of "pure skin colour"-based racism at work, it somehow d…

Canada does a relatively good job integrating Muslims.

Canada is cracking down on immigration but they tend to attract higher education immigrants which even if they have a religion, they are more likely to be more secular in their day-to-day.

Also, Canada publishes numbers on this and I fed it into Excel: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=981003...

Muslims make up 10% of 2016 and later arrivals followed by 14.04% of their Non-permanent residents. Christianity, Secular and No Religion beat those numbers.

From what I understand, Sweden numbers are in 80% of immigrants are Muslim but this is all news articles and such, I'm unable to locate hard numbers.

Comparing Canada to Sweden I think is false comparison.

Re: A new law in Sweden lets police seize unexplained luxury goods

#99

Post by stackskipton »

danielfoster wrote: post #95
knallfrosch wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the police stopped you on the street and asked how you were able to afford a MacBook or XYZ, would you be able to “prove” it? Yes, because I have a legal occupation.

Do you carry your payment slips with you? What if the item in question is deemed too expensive for your role? Yes, you could probably pull up your work email or show the bank deposits, but my point is that this is an arbitrary standard that cannot be consistently enforced.

Most people have their bank application on their phone so you could pull it up and prove it that way.

I do agree it will likely be heavily abused like Civil Forfeiture in United States and wouldn't recommend it to Swedish but it's a democracy.

Re: A new law in Sweden lets police seize unexplained luxury goods

#100

Post by dartos »

rosmax_1337 wrote: post #93
dartos wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a justification though. That’s what I’m saying. Just because the left doesn’t mention an issue, doesn’t mean that a consensus is reached. No political party really talks much about school shootings in the US nowadays, but that doesn’t mean the consensus is young white men are naturally school shooters.

Do you think all comments need to be articles in length? My original comment contains an idea, and a justification. It really is almost platonic in how simple it is actually, schoolbook example. You might feel that the justification is inadequate, but instead you began talking about how my comment doesn't "prove" anything, and now that it doesn't contain justification at all. Part of the reason why this justifies the…

Not every comment need be an article, but the internet would be better if every comment has actual justification and not just statements.

I said “prove” at first, but I should’ve said “justifies.” It’s a better word for this.

An equally plausible reason for the left not talking about immigration is that there is not a giant migrant wave as there was in the mid-2010s and the lax migration policies are already in place.

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