Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Clojure 1.12.0 is now available

clojure.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 120 posts

Re: Clojure 1.12.0 is now available

#91

Post by mvc »

haolez wrote: post #5
tgerdin wrote: post #2

Looks like a pretty solid release, very happy that Clojure is still going strong!

Is it going strong? I'm evaluating it for a new project. I'm considering it together with Clara[0]. However, it does give a vibe that it's not as mainstream as it was before and that the ecosystem is more sparse than what is once was. I'm not trying to troll. I want to choose it. It seems like a good engineering decision to me, but if it's nosediving in popularity and contributors, this might bite me back in the near…

There's another Clojure rules library worth considering. It has a section in the README about why you might prefer it to Clara.

https://github.com/oakes/odoyle-rules

Re: Clojure 1.12.0 is now available

#92

Post by tvaughan »

diggan wrote: post #83
tvaughan wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add to which, a lot of "new, big features" come in libraries, not the core language itself.

But my point is specifically about the features mentioned in this very release, which are all in the built-in clojure namespaces. Or did I miss something from the release notes? In fact, the separate libraries have their own release process and isn't part of this release at all, as things should be. So not sure what you're referring to here exactly?

> So not sure what you're referring to here exactly?

That the size or pace of this release alone should cause worry about future hairballs.

Re: Clojure 1.12.0 is now available

#93

Post by vips7L »

pjmlp wrote: post #77
contrarian1234 wrote: post #25

This is really a massive release with many cool new features My personal favorite is add-libs You can now write single file demos or minimal examples for issues. Really lowers the friction to share small runnable snippets with people You can also actually use it to demo Java libraries as well without all the Java boilerplate. Just poke around in the REPL and paste code into a comment on HN or wherever and anyone can…

Note that Java has a REPL now and scripting support, although something like add-libs is still missing from available meta commands.

JBang can grab dependencies for you.

Re: Clojure 1.12.0 is now available

#94

Post by ajanuary »

diggan wrote: post #84
medo-bear wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java's REPL is like a kick in the nuts compared to using one in Common Lisp. How does Clojure's REPL feel like in comparison?

Haven't used neither Java's repl nor Common Lisp (just read about both of them) but at a glance Clojure's repl is much closer to CLs repl than Java's. In fact, I think it's confusing to call the repls of language like Ruby, Java, JavaScript et al "REPL" at all, compared to what lisps offer, as the experience is so different. They're more like "Code evaluators" than anything else. Typically when using repls outside of…

repl as a name kind of describes the requirements for something to be a repl - it has a read-evaluate-print loop. It would be more confusing to say that something with a read-evaluate-print loop isn't a repl.

Re: Clojure 1.12.0 is now available

#95

Post by filoeleven »

geokon wrote: post #27
haolez wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it going strong? I'm evaluating it for a new project. I'm considering it together with Clara[0]. However, it does give a vibe that it's not as mainstream as it was before and that the ecosystem is more sparse than what is once was. I'm not trying to troll. I want to choose it. It seems like a good engineering decision to me, but if it's nosediving in popularity and contributors, this might bite me back in the near…

I'd also look at https://github.com/oakes/odoyle-rules/ I think the userbase is slowly shrinking, but I'd personally use Clojure even if all Clojure developers disappeared tomorrow. It's not built on shifting sand as the JVM is stable. If you need really niche/cutting edge stuff you're probably going to need to dip into Java or JS interop anyway

Thanks for the link! I’m not the parent poster, but I was thinking of using Clara Rules for prototyping a game idea and to get some experience with rule engines. I don’t think that truth maintenance (which is handled by Clara and not O’Doyle) is important for my use case, and O’Doyle looks simpler to pick up.

Re: Clojure 1.12.0 is now available

#96

Post by gleenn »

regularfry wrote: post #54
gleenn wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is this misconception that lack of activity on libraries indicates they aren't worth using. But I strongly believe a lot of libraries are just feature complete and bug-free enough to leave them be. The syntax of the language changes so minimally that libraries don't have to change at all after updates. This isn't Javascript where everyone keeps tweaking things over and over again.

The problem this creates is that as a potential consumer I can't tell the difference between "effectively done" and "abandoned, half-done, and about to waste a lot of my time". I don't see an easy answer to this because having "done" be an available state is extremely attractive, and forcing extra work on the author would be the wrong thing to do.

Well, picking libraries shouldn't be done willy nilly by looking at the stars in a github repo or that they contributed 5 minutes ago. There are many curated resources that help pick libraries. Here is a great one: https://www.clojure-toolbox.com/

Re: Clojure 1.12.0 is now available

#97

Post by nbardy »

MarkMarine wrote: post #28

This is a wonderful language I've only just started paying attention to, watching the talks from Rich on YouTube have ruined things I loved (like Either types.) I'm struggling with how to introduce it into my company without recommending my colleagues follow my path of working through 3 books and then watching most of the conj talks from the last 12 years on 1.75x speed, while building a personal project and re-imple…

The way is to drop Clojure and adopt it's principles. Teach your colleagues the functional engineering principles.

You can write code that looks a lot like Clojure in any modern language now, a lot of the functional primitives have been adopted in mainstream. e.g. Async/await => channels.

I started my career as a Clojure/Clojurescript developer 12 years ago. And now I do python for ML research and Typescript for prototyping all day.

Clojure honestly help me back a lot of the time because the tooling is so far behind the large programming communities. Functional programming has a lot of good ideas, but none good enough to leave behind all the packages on pip/npm.

I would only ever advise niche programming languages for small sub-teams that are highly technical were it makes a lot of sense. Something like compiler teams, webgl/triton for GPU programming, etc...

Re: Clojure 1.12.0 is now available

#98

Post by jdminhbg »

ajanuary wrote: post #94
diggan wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haven't used neither Java's repl nor Common Lisp (just read about both of them) but at a glance Clojure's repl is much closer to CLs repl than Java's. In fact, I think it's confusing to call the repls of language like Ruby, Java, JavaScript et al "REPL" at all, compared to what lisps offer, as the experience is so different. They're more like "Code evaluators" than anything else. Typically when using repls outside of…

repl as a name kind of describes the requirements for something to be a repl - it has a read-evaluate-print loop. It would be more confusing to say that something with a read-evaluate-print loop isn't a repl.

Yeah, the problem with "REPL" is that it underdescribes what Clojure, Common Lisp, etc. can do, not that it overdescribes Ruby, Python, etc.

Re: Clojure 1.12.0 is now available

#100

Post by ndr »

ReleaseCandidat wrote: post #32
hlship wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clojure's slow, deliberate development pace confuses people. The core team takes backwards compatibility very seriously. What you see with each new Clojure release is generally improved performance, better Java interop, and a smattering of new features. This is doubly true for 1.12 which is doing quite a bit of invisible work to make interop considerably better. So what you don't see is a constant flux of "innovation…

I guess that the GP didn't talk about the language itself, but the users. For me it looks like Scala and Clojure had lost many of its users because of Kotlin and newer Java versions. Generally I see a decline in the usage of functional languages since their heyday in the 2010s. I guess that's because imperative languages either get "functional features" or are "functional enough" - new ones like Rust or Swift.

Clojure is more lindy than Scala.

If someone tells you their project is written in Scala, Golang, Groovy, Coffeescript it almost dates the project doesn't it? Not so much in Clojure.

It's niche but I can bet it's still going to be there 10 years from now, going at least as strongly as now.

Post reply on HN