Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ex-Google CEO: AI startups can steal IP and hire lawyers to 'clean up the mess'

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 201 posts

Re: Ex-Google CEO: AI startups can steal IP and hire lawyers to 'clean up the mess'

#91

Post by matthewdgreen »

ryandrake wrote: post #71
tracerbulletx wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not specifically about technical problems. He's saying that you need to just go all in on getting traction and not constantly be worrying about things that aren't going to matter if you never get it. It's the same thing as people who just opine about how they'll handle the big server bills, or how they'll scale to a billion users, or how they'll deal with regulations, when they haven't gotten their first user ye…

This advice kind of feels like "Don't pay your taxes. Just go all in on enjoying your life and not constantly be worrying about things that aren't going to matter if you die. Worry about it later if the IRS goes after you." You really should be preparing for the future and operating above board, even from day one.

Another interpretation is that (1) copyright interests are over-protected (at least) in US law because publishing industries are very influential, and that this policy overweights their short-term profit motive and underweights other interests that might benefit from looser enforcement (as the Constitution puts it: "promot[ing] the progress of science and useful arts.")

And simultaneously, (2) if you can actually demonstrate such an interest (in particular: a profitable business that cannot exist when copyright law is fully enforced), the courts and publishers won't actually shut you down, but will settle for a cut of the new revenue you created.

Re: Ex-Google CEO: AI startups can steal IP and hire lawyers to 'clean up the mess'

#92

Post by ryandrake »

rbanffy wrote: post #88
ryandrake wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about slave labor? Definitely more profitable than paying employees. Is the law broken here, too?

Just look at the pyramids. Thanks to slave labour Egypt has now a reliable source of income from tourism. Let’s make it legal again.

LOL nice. The scary thing is it's hard to tell if this is sarcasm on HN these days. Some days reading this site, I think I've found someone who genuinely believes we should end all regulation because it's more profitable without.

Re: Ex-Google CEO: AI startups can steal IP and hire lawyers to 'clean up the mess'

#93

Post by ta_1138 »

The reason we have copyright laws is that sufficient people with power believe that the world is better with them than without them. Same with fair use exceptions.

If an AI agent becomes just massively useful, and then a judge says that it's impossible to run it profitably with the current interpretation of copyright law, the agents won't go away: Copyright will change to make the agents legal.

It really wasn't very different with copyright's evolution as the web developed: There are theoretical copyright regimes that are much harder than what we have, but basically kill the legal internet. But the damage to existing internet services was just unacceptable, including to users.

Re: Ex-Google CEO: AI startups can steal IP and hire lawyers to 'clean up the mess'

#94

Post by jordanpg »

seydor wrote: post #9

it worked for google, youtube, facebook, reddit, discord, tumblr, twitter . it's not exactly rocket science

Right. This observation is not unique to the AI space. Efficient infringement has been around for many years.

Re: Ex-Google CEO: AI startups can steal IP and hire lawyers to 'clean up the mess'

#95

Post by mistrial9 »

csouzaf wrote: post #78
mistrial9 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's crazy that is a phrase often used by people who are appealing to an invisible sense of "us versus them", emphasizing that the crazy thing-person-event is "not us" ? > even after the video was made private by the Stanford YouTube channel private conversations among the very powerful is exactly the topic.. so this seems a bit of a Freudian slip > I thought the talk was great. I am one of "us" so why so much upse…

Sorry, mate. I'm really not immersed in the English-speaking world, so I don't exactly understand the use of 'crazy'. I just see this word being used and used it here. What I meant was that I think what he said was perfectly normal C-level talk, and that's it. I hope my words don't resonate badly Really, I was just commenting something completely honest about what I thought.

thank you for the reply and no bad feelings.. it is a vigorous and current topic.. lots of implications socially and technically.. Please note that individual artists and writers literally depend on legal sale of their works to live in any city. Those executives, investors and lawyers in the audience at Stanford with large capital assets are making decisions that change the markets in a real ways. Students (like you and me?) are in the middle and learning.. may this exchange contribute to that!

Re: Ex-Google CEO: AI startups can steal IP and hire lawyers to 'clean up the mess'

#96

Post by philipwhiuk »

csouzaf wrote: post #89
ryandrake wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're allowed to both like the openness and criticize the character of the speaker who is being open.

Of course, I thought that my comment didn't touch on the critical part about it. I just liked the talk he gave. Should I also criticize when saying 'It's great' so I can express myself in a perfectly balanced way between justice and what people think he said badly? I'm asking an honest question

No but you might think to be less surprised about the repercussions when he's basically suggesting wrecking an entire industry.

Maybe you're not as grounded in the world many people live in.

Re: Ex-Google CEO: AI startups can steal IP and hire lawyers to 'clean up the mess'

#97

Post by jordanb »

ta_1138 wrote: post #93

The reason we have copyright laws is that sufficient people with power believe that the world is better with them than without them. Same with fair use exceptions. If an AI agent becomes just massively useful, and then a judge says that it's impossible to run it profitably with the current interpretation of copyright law, the agents won't go away: Copyright will change to make the agents legal. It really wasn't very…

Another component here is that, even if nothing useful comes out of this AI boom, none of the principles of any of the companies expect to be held personally responsible for the decisions they take.

The statutory penalties in copyright law are large and ruinous for small-time violators. People have had their financial security and lives ruined by bittorrent lawsuits, for instance. Applied consistently these damages would run into the hundreds of billions for folks like Altman. But Altman and all of his cohort including Schmidt do not expect them to be applied consistently.

Re: Ex-Google CEO: AI startups can steal IP and hire lawyers to 'clean up the mess'

#98

Post by philipwhiuk »

neilv wrote: post #60

The bit the headline references starts at about 23m41s in: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eQPHqcRwChpTHYEUQlhUDnBNnCS... FWIW, the talk starts rough, but there's some good bits throughout.

The irony of re-hosting on Google Drive to avoid a takedown from Google YouTube.

Re: Ex-Google CEO: AI startups can steal IP and hire lawyers to 'clean up the mess'

#99

Post by nostrademons »

ryandrake wrote: post #71
tracerbulletx wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not specifically about technical problems. He's saying that you need to just go all in on getting traction and not constantly be worrying about things that aren't going to matter if you never get it. It's the same thing as people who just opine about how they'll handle the big server bills, or how they'll scale to a billion users, or how they'll deal with regulations, when they haven't gotten their first user ye…

This advice kind of feels like "Don't pay your taxes. Just go all in on enjoying your life and not constantly be worrying about things that aren't going to matter if you die. Worry about it later if the IRS goes after you." You really should be preparing for the future and operating above board, even from day one.

Note that rich people (and at least one prominent ex-President, and I don't think he's the only one) actually do operate by that principle. They go on and enjoy their life, largely don't pay their taxes, and then hire an army of lawyers and accountants to clean up the mess when the IRS goes after them.

I was raised to play by the rules and do everything by the book, but sometimes I wonder if that's just something that people who have no intention of playing by the rules say to screw over us gullible people.

Re: Ex-Google CEO: AI startups can steal IP and hire lawyers to 'clean up the mess'

#100

Post by esafak »

tracerbulletx wrote: post #59
omoikane wrote: post #17

It's hard to tell if what Eric Schmidt was saying was a joke, an observation, or a recommendation. One interpretation from the context of the transcript seem to be "AI can make/steal stuff and manual intervention (lawyers) can clean those up later". Another interpretation from the context of Eric Schmidt being a savvy businessman is that people should go ahead and solve all the technical challenges first, and everyth…

It's not specifically about technical problems. He's saying that you need to just go all in on getting traction and not constantly be worrying about things that aren't going to matter if you never get it. It's the same thing as people who just opine about how they'll handle the big server bills, or how they'll scale to a billion users, or how they'll deal with regulations, when they haven't gotten their first user ye…

Do you remember Napster? They went all in on getting traction, succeeded, then got crushed by the music industry. Ignoring the law only works if you are bankrolled. Don't try this at home, kids.
Post reply on HN